Charging Etiquette

[Tooney]

Most EA charging sites I have used have only 4 charging stations. Tesla supercharging sites along the same 800 mile route have 8 to 10 stations minimum.
"Etiquette" would be a big problem with ICE vehicles, too, if gas stations only had 4 pumps each.
The problem is not etiquette, it's lack of charging infrastructure.
If they are working, 150 kw EA stations provide a reasonable charging stop - not much longer charging stops than 350kw's.

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[Scandinavian]

Price discrimination is the answer, like eg. airlines. One way or another. It's early days but If/once electric cars will be mainstream, new pricing models might arise. Per minute vs kW based on thresholds, differentiation by nominal power, stall booking in advance for a fee, priority access based on whatever, etc. etc.

There is some charge differences in the Porsche Charging pricing. For Ionity there is just a straight kWh pricing, but gor a number of other stations in the network, there is a fixed kWh price PLUS a per minute charge. The per minute charge varies from 0.05 Euro per minute gor 22kW up to 0.45 Euro per minute for >150 kW chargers. So a differential pricing model is in place and could be further improved to steer cars to chargers suitable for their EV’s max charge rate.

Since most cars charge from 10 to 80% in 30 minutes according to the manufacturers specification, there could also be a high charge rate for being connected to the charger for more than 30 minutes with a grace time of some minutes. Similar as Tesla idle time charge. If that would be high than people would move after 30 minutes.

Guess the main problem arises with models like EA in the US with free charging as part of the purchase??

 

[ThePaddyWan]

I'm okay with people taking the 350kw charger, though, I prefer to be able to use it when available. It's not worth the argument. What really gets me is ICEing and worse, EVs who just leave their car there. I'm not just talking about sitting idle with the cable plugged, but using the charging station as a parking spot. Extra kicker for when there's tons of parking available as well.

 

[TYKHAAAN]

I can understand not wanting to bother to educate people, it’s not any of our responsibility to do so. I personally would rather try something than nothing. Complaining in here definitely wont get anything resolved out there.

As for the price change, that is a really good idea that Tesla already employs at their SC network. You pay higher rates for higher speeds. This may very well be a simple solution they could implement today. All stations putting out 350kw will def help in the long run too.

 

[FlyingPoint]

FWIW, I have visited about 10 different 350kw's and never received more than 132kw. The whole system needs to be rethought.

 

[Scandinavian]

I can understand not wanting to bother to educate people, it’s not any of our responsibility to do so. I personally would rather try something than nothing. Complaining in here definitely wont get anything resolved out there.

As for the price change, that is a really good idea that Tesla already employs at their SC network. You pay higher rates for higher speeds. This may very well be a simple solution they could implement today. All stations putting out 350kw will def help in the long run too.

Here is a screen shot of the charge rates here in Europe with Porsche Charging Service. And if you are not a member of that the prices are even higher.

 

[Scandinavian]

FWIW, I have visited about 10 different 350kw's and never received more than 132kw. The whole system needs to be rethought.

That is very surprising. Did you see Your battery temperature when connecting? Was the battery cold or….? Did you try to change to another charger in the same location?

Normally the Ionity chargers and other 300 to 350 kW chargers here in Europe will give a very high charge power when connected with a warm battery. Consistently seen 260 kW + with low SoC and warm battery. If not have changed stall and reconnected. Now frequently reduce the charge power to 200 kW to have enough time for a comfort break and a nice coffee.

Guess this is dependent on the charger installation with back up power as well as proper grid connections.

There has been so much improvement in the charging networks over the last two years, I guess due to increased competition. We, the EV drivers have benefitted greatly!

 

[jcg]

Quick reference for model charging rates at the bottom of the article.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/fastest-charging-electric-vehicles-evs-car-truck-suv/?slide=11

 

[PDACPA]

Do people park their car at a gas station and go in the mall to shop for an hour or more? No.

I realize it takes more time to charge than fuel up, but do not leave the car. Maybe have the screen stop charging every 5 minutes unless you touch the screen (thinking of autopilot requiring you to touch the steering wheel). I agree with the increased charge cost 85%-100% and/or charge for time in excess of 30 minutes (or idle time like Tesla charges).

If they could design the chargers where the charger unlocks from the car that exceeded its time and has a cable that would reach another car even with the timed out car would help.

 

[W1NGE]

I have no problem with folks making it to 100%, make no mistake. My problem is when a dude in an ID4 goes from 5% - 100% using a 350kw charger. Effectively wasting everyone's time when he would get the exact same experience from a 150kw and not inconvenience anyone that can properly use a 350kw charger.

In principle yes assuming a) 50kW was vacant on arrival and working, b) 350kW was able to offer more than 150kW, and c) id4 can soak up 118kW max and therefore perfectly entitled to use the fastest available.EVSE.

Bear in mind the small battery capacity (55kW gross) and a ⅓ less than your Taycan.

 

[Scandinavian]

Quick reference for model charging rates at the bottom of the article.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/fastest-charging-electric-vehicles-evs-car-truck-suv/?slide=11

Good information in that table. Only issue is how the real charge curve looks? Some of these peak charge rates may be achieved for a very short time only.

Secondly some EV’s can not sustain fast motorway driving AND several high charge rates. BMW i4 M50 is one such case. High charge rates in spec, but throttles quickly on a long trip. No idea why but very annoying.

Taycan is such a gem in that respect. Long fast motorway trips through Germany and still consistent very high charge rates. Porsche certainly got that right!

 

[Scandinavian]

In principle yes assuming a) 50kW was vacant on arrival and working, b) 350kW was able to offer more than 150kW, and c) id4 can soak up 118kW max and therefore perfectly entitled to use the fastest available.EVSE.

Bear in mind the small battery capacity (55kW gross) and a ⅓ less than your Taycan.

Think he said 150 kW available. So with 118 kW max it should cover the ID4

 

[W1NGE]

Think he said 150 kW available. So with 118 kW max it should cover the ID4

Yeah but the complaint was they the ID4 shouldn't have been and was hogging the 350kW unless I read it wrong.

 

[Alex74]

Greetings all,

My charging escapades were subpar today (due to people, not EA), and I wanted to get you all's seasoned opinions as I'm still new to this. I have never charged my car at a 350kw station so I ventured to one, and went to a subsequent station out of necessity later in the day. For both occasions, cars with a maximum of 150kw charging capabilities (ID4 and Volvo CW40) were taking the only 350kw stations. I was about to talk to the ID4 owner and he moved, but by the time he moved I was at 60% so changing chargers was a waste of time. The woman in the volvo was at 75% when I arrived and basically told me to kick rocks. She was still there by the time I left, charging at <50kw with her battery at 95%.
For the second occasion, there was only 1 350kw charger available, and another ID4 was there. What made matters worse is I was at 11% and really could've used it, and the car was sat there charging for an hour to the point where the charger kicked the car off, but the owner was nowhere to be found. To add to my annoyance, for both occasions there were 8 completely open 150kw stations.

Is this what I have to look forward to? I'm dreading my upcoming 750mile road-trip later this week if people are this inconsiderate and/or ignorant of their own cars to the detriment of others...

It’s because the chargers 150 and 350 have 800-920 DC Volt. That means a car ID4 and rest only have a 400V battery, so they charge at a 150 kw charger at 75 kw and on a 350 kw at 150 kw max for ID 3 it’s at 125 kw,

Taycan has an 800V battery and can charge at full capacity on a 150 or 350 kw , with a max of 270 kw,
that’s why normal EV cars, with a 400V battery charge at 300+ chargers.
they think that it will go faster, but the limit of,the car is the limit you can get. I’ll try to explain that too sometimes, but they don’t botter.
Patience ?

 

[FlyingPoint]

That is very surprising. Did you see Your battery temperature when connecting? Was the battery cold or….? Did you try to change to another charger in the same location?

Normally the Ionity chargers and other 300 to 350 kW chargers here in Europe will give a very high charge power when connected with a warm battery. Consistently seen 260 kW + with low SoC and warm battery. If not have changed stall and reconnected. Now frequently reduce the charge power to 200 kW to have enough time for a comfort break and a nice coffee.

Guess this is dependent on the charger installation with back up power as well as proper grid connections.

There has been so much improvement in the charging networks over the last two years, I guess due to increased competition. We, the EV drivers have benefitted greatly!

I have tried everything. The stations in the northeastern US have not been delivering as placarded at 350kW in my experience. If anyone knows a 350kw charger in the NY area that actually will deliver 250kW plus, let me know. I would love to try it out.

I have given up expecting anything more than 130kW. In a strange way it simplifies life. The next time I am in the market for a new EV, 800 volt architecture will not be a must for me. There will be more EV choices available. Frankly, the whole charging infrastructure has been a big disappointment.

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