Efficiency: Comparing Tesla MS to Taycan CT

[arossti]

I'm not trying to start a fight here - just wondering how to squeeze more range out of my CT4. With my MS on a test run of approx. 10,000km, I would typically get around 200 to 220Wh/km efficiency (P85/85kW pack on 21" turbine wheels with a roofrack). Taycan shows efficiency as kWh/100km so it is really just multiply the metric Porsche uses by 10 to get Wh/km equivalency to compare apples to apples. So 224Wh/km (the way Tesla shows it) is the same as 22.4kWh/100km (the way Porsche shows it). When my MS (P85) was new, I could charge to a ~450km range on a 100% SOC battery in Summer weather, and when driving for distance I could easily get as low as ~180Wh/km or 18kWh/100km (unheard of in a CT). On the Taycan CT, the best I can get is around 280Wh/km or 28 to ~30Wh/km - or about 20% to 30% less efficiency. I'm wondering what the reasons are - I know there are many, from battery chemistry to weight to rolling resistance to mechanical friction, air temperature, battery temperature, etc. Coeff of drag on the Taycan CT is 0.270 where MS is 0.208 - is this the main difference - a 20% worse COD? Wheels on both cars are the same size. Roofrack on both cars. I am trying to get ideal mileage using Range Mode whenever I'm not needing to go faster than 120km/hr. Is there also more mechanical resistance on the Taycan? What is the biggest factor influencing total efficiency, and how can/could it be better?

 

[Jhenson29]

I don’t have any help, but just for some more data, I was around 20 - 22 kWh/100km through around October. Then it started creeping up some. Not much. I still see 22 sometimes. If I plug it in again without driving much, it gets much higher. Total is a little over 18. But it’s also the sedan…4S on 20s.

 

[thecoloradokid]

Good topic.

Outside of overall efficiency, the one thing I miss from my old Model S is the larger battery pack. I realize it is not going to happen, but I would love to have a 100kWh battery pack stuffed into the Taycan along with a little bit more of a usable battery than what we have now.

Also does the Taycan really need a 10kWh battery buffer to help with battery longevity? Guess we will find out in a couple of years when we have data on battery capacity loss.

Would love to have an additional 30 or 40 miles of range without having to go into extreme hyper-miling mode.

 

[ciaranob]

I'm not trying to start a fight here - just wondering how to squeeze more range out of my CT4. With my MS on a test run of approx. 10,000km, I would typically get around 200 to 220Wh/km efficiency (P85/85kW pack on 21" turbine wheels with a roofrack). Taycan shows efficiency as kWh/100km so it is really just multiply the metric Porsche uses by 10 to get Wh/km equivalency to compare apples to apples. So 224Wh/km (the way Tesla shows it) is the same as 22.4kWh/100km (the way Porsche shows it). When my MS (P85) was new, I could charge to a ~450km range on a 100% SOC battery in Summer weather, and when driving for distance I could easily get as low as ~180Wh/km or 18kWh/100km (unheard of in a CT). On the Taycan CT, the best I can get is around 280Wh/km or 28 to ~30Wh/km - or about 20% to 30% less efficiency. I'm wondering what the reasons are - I know there are many, from battery chemistry to weight to rolling resistance to mechanical friction, air temperature, battery temperature, etc. Coeff of drag on the Taycan CT is 0.270 where MS is 0.208 - is this the main difference - a 20% worse COD? Wheels on both cars are the same size. Roofrack on both cars. I am trying to get ideal mileage using Range Mode whenever I'm not needing to go faster than 120km/hr. Is there also more mechanical resistance on the Taycan? What is the biggest factor influencing total efficiency, and how can/could it be better?

How different/similar are the tires on each vehicle (summer perf vs all season etc) - you mention rolling resistance but don't detail the tires which of course can be a very big factor.

I have not looked but curious also as to overall weight comparison between the two (CT and MS) given one is a wagon and the other a sedan and @Jhenson29 's sedan getting close to the MS numbers.

Literally have zero interest in a MS but always curious re performance metrics comparisons.

 

[JimBob]

You have a bunch of apples and oranges comparisons here, including driving speeds and temperatures. Below is a table of comparisons between the Taycan and various Tesla's from a couple of YouTube testers. I also have temperature adjusted comparisons using my tests. The pertinent comparisons are marked in green. All the tests were done at highway speeds 115kph/~70 mph but you have to look at temps to get proper comps. And you have to take into consideration battery size.

Yes the Tesla is more efficient than the Taycan. Bottom line about 20% more efficient than the 4S and the 4S is more efficient than the CT. And the newer cars are widening the gap with the Taycan.

If you want greater efficiency, realistically your option is to slow down.

I have additional details if interested.

 

[feye]

Good topic.

Outside of overall efficiency, the one thing I miss from my old Model S is the larger battery pack. I realize it is not going to happen, but I would love to have a 100kWh battery pack stuffed into the Taycan along with a little bit more of a usable battery than what we have now.

Also does the Taycan really need a 10kWh battery buffer to help with battery longevity? Guess we will find out in a couple of years when we have data on battery capacity loss.

Would love to have an additional 30 or 40 miles of range without having to go into extreme hyper-miling mode.

Agree. I guess they are so conservative because the super fast charging with 800V. Porsche had no large scale experience...

But, if the next Taycan does not at least offer 120kWh, I am not buying. Soon in China I can get cars with up to 150 NIO, 144.4 GAC cars for 30% of the price. So technically no problem, they just need to compete...

 

[feye]

I'm not trying to start a fight here - just wondering how to squeeze more range out of my CT4. With my MS on a test run of approx. 10,000km, I would typically get around 200 to 220Wh/km efficiency (P85/85kW pack on 21" turbine wheels with a roofrack). Taycan shows efficiency as kWh/100km so it is really just multiply the metric Porsche uses by 10 to get Wh/km equivalency to compare apples to apples. So 224Wh/km (the way Tesla shows it) is the same as 22.4kWh/100km (the way Porsche shows it). When my MS (P85) was new, I could charge to a ~450km range on a 100% SOC battery in Summer weather, and when driving for distance I could easily get as low as ~180Wh/km or 18kWh/100km (unheard of in a CT). On the Taycan CT, the best I can get is around 280Wh/km or 28 to ~30Wh/km - or about 20% to 30% less efficiency.

Is the drag coeff really so bad on the CT compared to the regular Taycan? I thought it's almost the same. I did a real test comparison and found that my Taycan is much more efficient: https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...from-anyone-who-has-done-this.4490/post-64346

Have you compared tire pressure? Have you switched off recup? Low consumption in the Taycan comes only with coasting.

One more thing which makes a big difference in consumption is driving style. Because T has the chassis dynamics of a golf cart, acceleration feels fast. If you want the same feeling in the Porsche you need to hit the pedal quite a bit harder...

 

[arossti]

If you want greater efficiency, realistically your option is to slow down.

Never! lol.... but seriously - I know it is apples to oranges, I was only really asking what the biggest influence is and I think it is aero. With the MS in Winter I ran 19" open spokes with Michelin X-Ice and on the CT I am running 20" offroad wheels with open spokes and Pirelli Scorpions (supply chain issues mean no 19" aero wheels w/ winter tires were available when I purchased). I think the staggered setup has wider (11.5") rear wheels than the MS had (10" if memory serves). I know temperature matters a lot - but that A Trip ODO from Tesla showed ~6400km of Winter driving and 224. So I was wondering if it is even *possible* to get numbers like that from the CT and I think the answer is no. I love the car but am disappointed in the range - not on its own - but because it seems to never charge above 92kW at 350kW DC fast chargers (I have seen others get 250+ kW - not me) - so the promise of super fast charging and the dearth of public chargers has never made up for the range loss. I agree I never want another Tesla for reasons that are the subject of another thread but the efficiency/range I miss dearly.

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