Nice vid about ceramic brakes

[Jhenson29]

What he is saying is in the context of a f1 car

When he was commenting on @Skilly ’s R8?

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[OTPSkipper]

When he was commenting on @Skilly ’s R8?

I don’t think so. It was in this thread towards the top. He talks about tests he did on early carbon ceramic breaks. Now I would guess the car was still designed for iron breaks at that time. I’ll take a look.

 

[OTPSkipper]

Third post in this thread.
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/nice-vid-about-ceramic-brakes.10964/post-159067

 

[Jhenson29]

I don’t think so. It was in this thread towards the top. He talks about tests he did on early carbon ceramic breaks. Now I would guess the car was still designed for iron breaks at that time. I’ll take a look.

I’m saying, he also made comments on the R8, here:

Obviously any optional extra somebody wants to spend money on is a personal choice and I do think they look nicer but if somebody feels a noticable performance difference on the road it is 99.9% likely to be expectation bias, not a real difference.

Those comments are in the context of a road car. Not F1. At least that how I read them.

So discussion of road cars is fair game and not out of context.

That’s the extent of my opinion though. I have nothing to add to the main discussion. Carry on. It’s certainly more interesting that seat colors.

 

[Mike in CA]

You are treating unsprung weight reduction as an absolute, I think. Good engineers don’t do that. Everything is a balance. @f1eng already said that fade is totally controllable with iron brakes with proper airflow. My guess is that the real advantage for f1 is allowing more creative use of that airflow because the breaks don’t need it any more.

As for Taycan, I think you are reduced to the dust argument. Is that worth the bucks?

Ok, I freely admit this is just a pet peeve of mine and nothing personal, but can we at least agree that the word is "brakes" not "breaks"?

I'm not treating un-sprung weight as an absolute. If there was an engineering or performance downside to un-sprung weight reduction, I might agree with you about the "balance" issue, but there's not and I would ask you to name one if you think there is. Even in the example you cite, carbon brakes on an F1 car not only save weight, but they also eliminate some of the aerodynamic penalties associated with the airflow that would be required to cool iron brakes. It's a win-win.

As for PCCB's on the Taycan,. even if you (unfairly IMO) discount any performance advantage, in addition to reducing brake dust they also look very cool. Some folks spend thousands on trim upgrades and treatments that offer absolutely zero performance improvement. More power to them, but personally I'll spring for an elegantly engineered piece of hardware over trim any day of the week. Besides, as @bsclywilly mentioned earlier, spending money in hopes of even marginal gains is part of the fun of being an enthusiast!

 

[OTPSkipper]

I'm not treating un-sprung weight as an absolute. If there was an engineering or performance downside to un-sprung weight reduction, I might agree with you about the "balance" issue, but there's not and I would ask you to name one if you think there is.

Spell check is my friend. Most of the time.

So cost is a part of any engineering balancing effort. Maybe I am just too cheap to spring for something PCCB. Why isn’t cost a balancing factor?

 

[bsclywilly]

Spell check is my friend. Most of the time.

So cost is a part of any engineering balancing effort. Maybe I am just too cheap to spring for something PCCB. Why isn’t cost a balancing factor?

I can’t afford PCCB. But I will say engineering problems that can be solved with money are the easiest to have. Much better than when you’re limited by physics and such.

 

[OTPSkipper]

No one care when you solve a problem with a solution no one can afford. As an engineer, cost comes into everything I do. If it isn’t material cost, then it is limited design time (another cost).

 

[Mike in CA]

Spell check is my friend. Most of the time.

So cost is a part of any engineering balancing effort. Maybe I am just too cheap to spring for something PCCB. Why isn’t cost a balancing factor?

Fair enough. Adding cost into the equation is a separate issue as is the requirement for safety and reliability. You wouldn't engineer a suspension made from balsa wood. But all else being equal, for maximum performance a chassis engineer will create the lowest mass design suitable for the purpose.

 

[bsclywilly]

No one care when you solve a problem with a solution no one can afford. As an engineer, cost comes into everything I do. If it isn’t material cost, then it is limited design time (another cost).

There are many more problems that can’t be solved no matter how much money you have.

Anyways this thread is far too serious for a Friday afternoon. Have you guys seen the thread about the new My Porsche app? It’s turned in to an iOS vs android debate. We all got too much time on our hands.

 

[Mike in CA]

No one care when you solve a problem with a solution no one can afford. As an engineer, cost comes into everything I do. If it isn’t material cost, then it is limited design time (another cost).

We're really talking now about two different things. I fully understand the need to engineer to a cost; I dealt with that for 30 years. OTOH, if you gave me a clean sheet of paper and an unlimited budget I would likely come up with a different solution than one that was based predominantly on the bottom line.

$9K for PCCB's is a lot. Still, to keep things in perspective, most people would also recoil at spending 6 figures for an automobile, something that almost everyone on this forum has done, many more than once. In that context, it's not super hard to fit PCCB's into a budget as long as you're willing to choose them over, say, the top tier sound system or the fancy carbon trim. In my case, the cost of PCCB's represented less than 7% of my projected allocation for the car. Given that I also had to have Mission E wheels which come with a mandatory PCSB upgrade, the PCCB's were really only an extra 3% so it was worth it for me. It's just a matter of priorities and how you want to spend what is already guaranteed to be a lot of money.

 

[OTPSkipper]

Anyways this thread is far too serious for a Friday afternoon. Have you guys seen the thread about the new My Porsche app? It’s turned in to an iOS vs android debate. We all got too much time on our hands.

My car is in San Diego hopefully waiting for a truck. Just excited about it being so close. But it could be stuck waiting for some part too.

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