Recuperation Mode Impact on Range

[kmcdonal]

I am trying to understand the impact of recuperation mode on range.

If I am reading the Good to Know app correctly, recuperation mode is slightly less efficient than having it off. I am thinking that is because when it is on, it sometimes initiates regen (forcing me later to draw from the battery to maintain speed) which is less efficient than just coasting. Putting the energy back in the battery and pulling it out has some small amount of energy loss compared to just coasting. However, if I am going down a steep hill, I am thinking there may not be a penalty to recuperation mode since I will likely be on the brakes anyway. In other words, going downhill recuperation mode is basically just automatically applying the brakes.

Does this sound right to folks? There isn't a lot of background on recuperation mode in the manuals. Thanks!

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[Persuader]

I am trying to understand the impact of recuperation mode on range.

If I am reading the Good to Know app correctly, recuperation mode is slightly less efficient than having it off. I am thinking that is because when it is on, it sometimes initiates regen (forcing me later to draw from the battery to maintain speed) which is less efficient than just coasting. Putting the energy back in the battery and pulling it out has some small amount of energy loss compared to just coasting. However, if I am going down a steep hill, I am thinking there may not be a penalty to recuperation mode since I will likely be on the brakes anyway. In other words, going downhill recuperation mode is basically just automatically applying the brakes.

Does this sound right to folks? There isn't a lot of background on recuperation mode in the manuals. Thanks!

My thoughts exactly.
I use recuperation mode to either help slow the car when going downhill or when driving fast on a winding road.

 

[jetbox]

My thoughts exactly.
I use recuperation mode to either help slow the car when going downhill or when driving fast on a winding road.

porsche reckon that coasting is most efficient. And anyway, when you press the brakes you are using regen anyway ( and not the actual brake discs, to slow the car. Unless braking very hard with high g)

 

[evanevery]

...it sometimes initiates regen ...

As most Tesla drivers will tell you, it is YOU, not the car, which "initiates regen". Its never "sometimes" as its always done on purpose. Those who are fans of "single pedal driving", and are reasonably adept at it, can easily control if/when regen is initiated simply through pedal manipulation. It easily becomes second nature. YOU choose whether the car is accelerating, regenerating, or essentially coasting through careful, and largely subconscious, pedal manipulation.

5 Years of daily driving cars which do this has greatly assisted extremely subtle throttle control in my racing venue's - particularly on the frozen lakes of northern Sweden during ice racing season! ;-)

I'm sure this will bring us back to the "single pedal driving" controversy, but I think you will find that most folks who have experience with it prefer it. Porsche's decision may be more related to the historical perspective of their driver's and not based on efficiency...

I would expect its pretty much a wash, for ELECTRICAL efficiency, if its done properly. (Which is not hard) The big difference, for DRIVER efficiency, is the need to keep moving your foot between the throttle and the brake if you do not use "single pedal" driving.

$0.02

 

[Singularity]

I'm driving my Taycan in full coasting mode always now, regardless of the driving mode (in normal it's off by default, but in sport modes it's on by default but now I always turn it off regardless of the mode). I simply can't drive smoothly with any amount of automatic recuperation. The driving is silky smooth with coasting, and very unsmooth with any recuperation (to me the amount of breaking it does when on feels very significant, can't even imagine how horrible it would be with other EVs). It just feels much easier and more natural for me to control the driving with the break pedal rather than the accelerator pedal.

Note that the Taycan has a very strong regenerative capability when breaking, so it will be able to regen well from manual breaking almost in any situation. That's why it's actually most efficient to coast with manual breaking. With other EVs it doesn't work quite like this as hard breaking would not regen effectively, so it actually makes MUCH more sense to have constant break regen.

Taycan's ability to have 265kW of regenerative breaking is the key to everything. Unless you simply are used to and like to drive with just the accelerator (coming from other EVs perhaps), I would suggest coast mode + manual breaking as the most efficient way to drive.

Finally, I just absolutely love the ridiculous ability of the Taycan to coast. I've coasted so fricking long distances in some routes that it's unbelievable.

 

[PanameraFrank]

I'm sure this will bring us back to the "single pedal driving" controversey, but I think you will find that most folks who have experience with it prefer it. Porsche's decision may be more related to the historical perspective of their driver's preference and not based on efficiency...

$0.02

Most? How did you come to that conclusion? I wasn't included in this extensive survey of EV owners. I personally disliked the one pedal driving after using it for a month and the people I know with a Tesla or iPace as their DD (and sports cars on the side) agreed.

It's personal preference but I agree with Porsche as do "most" of the people I know.

 

[Reg]

Porsche's decision may be more related to the historical perspective of their driver's and not based on efficiency.. $0.02

Porsche is an engineering and driver oriented organization so I’m sure their decisions are based on that rather than some emotional historical reasons.

 

[porsche_coyote]

Most? How did you come to that conclusion? I wasn't included in this extensive survey of EV owners. I personally disliked the one pedal driving after using it for a month and the people I know with a Tesla or iPace as their DD (and sports cars on the side) agreed.

It's personal preference but I agree with Porsche as do "most" of the people I know.

As a driver of two EVs, one of which has aggressive lift-throttle recuperation (BMW i3) and one of which coasts by default (VW e-Golf), I can tell you that I personally prefer the VW approach. The lift-throttle recuperation is great for most stop and go city driving, but as soon as you get to things like longer downhills, winding roads and highways etc it is much more work to hold the throttle at the exact position needing for coasting. I much prefer being able to use the brake pedal to initiate recuperation. As to which is more efficient, it's really hard to say. There is no canonically-correct way to control recuperation for every situation, but I would say for most 'performance driving' situations I would really not want the one-pedal experience.

 

[louv]

As a driver of two EVs, one of which has aggressive lift-throttle recuperation (BMW i3) and one of which coasts by default (VW e-Golf), I can tell you that I personally prefer the VW approach. The lift-throttle recuperation is great for most stop and go city driving, but as soon as you get to things like longer downhills, winding roads and highways etc it is much more work to hold the throttle at the exact position needing for coasting. I much prefer being able to use the brake pedal to initiate recuperation. As to which is more efficient, it's really hard to say. There is no canonically-correct way to control recuperation for every situation, but I would say for most 'performance driving' situations I would really not want the one-pedal experience.

Agreed. Came here to say this.

My two EVs are the Taycan (defaults to coasting) and the Mini Cooper SE (defaults to aggressive regen, can be switched to be lighter regen, which is like Taycan’s “Regen On” setting)

I prefer the light regen... which isn’t the default in either car.

#FirstWorldProblems

 

[JC Mann]

Agreed. Came here to say this.

My two EVs are the Taycan (defaults to coasting) and the Mini Cooper SE (defaults to aggressive regen, can be switched to be lighter regen, which is like Taycan’s “Regen On” setting)

I prefer the light regen... which isn’t the default in either car.

#FirstWorldProblems

I’ve had Tesla Model S For 4.5 years. I’ve grown accustomed to the “single pedal” driving. I didn’t believe it when I read that Porsche believed coasting was more efficient. As I got to thinking about it, though, I realized that I had learned to wait much later to start slowing for a stop (light or sign.) Even slight use of “go” Pedal is still pumping electricity into motors. Porsche’s coasting does not slow down the Car and you aren’t pressing accelerator, so it costs you basically Nothing while coasting. Only when you press on brake do you put electricity back into Porsche battery.
Whether regen is done with brake pedal (Porsche) or lifting off accelerator (Tesla) you’re restoring the same amount of energy slowing from 40 to 0. In Porsche, you can coast half block while Tesla would have to push motor (be it ever so lightly) for half that time before letting up before car does regen immediately upon lifting foot.
So … coasting longer distance vice holding some speed to delay aggressive regen could actually a bit more efficient.

 

[evanevery]

Most? How did you come to that conclusion? I wasn't included in this extensive survey of EV owners. I personally disliked the one pedal driving after using it for a month and the people I know with a Tesla or iPace as their DD (and sports cars on the side) agreed.

It's personal preference but I agree with Porsche as do "most" of the people I know.

You can check the threads here on "Single Pedal Driving" and also on the Tesla forums. "YOU" are a perfect example why I said "MOST" and not "ALL"....

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1109539_what-is-one-pedal-driving-in-an-electric-car: "It's a feature much prized by owners of Teslas, BMW i3s, and most recently the Chevy Bolt EV."

https://www.wired.com/story/look-ma-no-brake-youll-drive-electric-cars-with-one-pedal/: It’s a quirk that takes some getting used to. At first, it can feel like the parking brake has been accidentally left on. But most drivers eventually prefer it because it makes inching forward in traffic much easier than swapping your foot back and forth between pedals.

If you wish to set up a definitive survey, I will gladly participate!

 

[BuzzLightyear]

I am using most of the time the automatic regen mode which is a perfect combination of both modes. This is my personal opinion from my experiences on German roads and highways.

 

[jetbox]

I am using most of the time the automatic regen mode which is a perfect combination of both modes. This is my personal opinion from my experiences on German roads and highways.

Agree I like this mode too although it does then make the car inconsistent on how the car feels when lifting off the throttle. I actually think that all three modes are useful and have a rightful place. It’s been well thought out by the Porsche designers.

 

[BuzzLightyear]

Agree I like this mode too although it does then make the car inconsistent on how the car feels when lifting off the throttle. I actually think that all three modes are useful and have a rightful place. It’s been well thought out by the Porsche designers.

In some situations you are right. But I think it is very easy to switch through the modes and change it to that mode you like to use in that specific situation you are driving.

 

[jetbox]

In some situations you are right. But I think it is very easy to switch through the modes and change it to that mode you like to use in that specific situation you are driving.

Yep, fully agree

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