Redshift Performance Intro - Taycan ECU Performance Packages

[Mr.Smith]

wait so the dealer knows about the tune but they couldn’t notice it how?

I told them I was doing it before. I was trying to buy a spare ASG as well
I was the first in the US to do it

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[daveo4EV]

it won't be an issue until it's an issue - good luck…

 

[redshift-performance]

Welcome @redshift-performance to the forum. Very compelling offering with lots to consider. I really liked the COBB tunes on the Macan for example that definitely unlock the additional power, but with their device, it is easily installed/uninstalled to ensure full stock ECU condition for service visits.

I have a question, given 30 min swap procedure of the hardware ECU unit, is it possible to get a second ECU unit that is tuned, and then retain the stock version to install it for service visits. Assuming this is possible, meaning the ECUs are not specifically coded/paired to the car, I can see if I go to the dealer to order one (do you know what would be the cost), that will raise some questions, but certainly ordering from a third party like Suncoast would be an option, if this can be ordered as a usual part.

Hello SergeyIndy,
The ECU has software programmed into them which is specific to each vehicle and can only be done by the manufacturer using their tools. The only way you could have a backup ECU is if you order a new one directly from Porsche and have it installed at the dealership. You can then send us the "old" unit for programming. This option is not cheap as the ECU costs about $700-800 and whatever the dealership would charge to install them.

 

[unbiased]

I was wondering how you guys can unlock >800hp when the Turbo S only has max 700 something in launch control? Do the cars have that much reserve that Porsche is not making available?

 

[iamai]

it won't be an issue until it's an issue - good luck…

what is the point of your commenting on this topic? All 6 or 19% of all the posts are yours and they are all negative and not instructive. Do you have a competing business you want to open or something?

 

[eisenb11]

There’s a law in US called “The Magnuson Moss Warranty Act” which requires manufacturers to honor the original warranty unless they can prove that the aftermarket modification (either the parts or installation) was responsible for the failure that caused warranty repairs.

Except the likely reality is that the manufacturer will just deny the warranty. Then you'll have to take them to court and $500,000 and 3 years later you win because they violated the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act. It'll be a David vs Goliath story.

 

[daveo4EV]

what is the point of your commenting on this topic? All 6 or 19% of all the posts are yours and they are all negative and not instructive. Do you have a competing business you want to open or something?

no I don't understand why people need to do this when it's very very likely if you have a warranty issue Porsche will walk all over you because of this ECU modification - it's a huge risk for $60k warranty claim if you ever need Porsche to honor the warranty…

 

[Jhenson29]

what is the point of your commenting on this topic? All 6 or 19% of all the posts are yours and they are all negative and not instructive. Do you have a competing business you want to open or something?

I think the issue is how some of the this is being represented. I agree with @daveo4EV 's posts and am glad he has posted them.

This topic (tuning/warranty) comes up weekly (it seems) on RL 992 forum and the consensus is: tune at your own risk. Even the tuners will tell you; at your risk. I've seen them post it. Multiple multiple times.

If someone wants to tune their car, by all means, do that. But they should absolutely be aware of the risks involved. If someone is tuning with the idea that if something happens, they're in the clear and Porsche will take care of them, I think they are making a mistake. If someone is requesting assistance or advice on how to hide their tune, I think they should reconsider. If, however, they are doing it understanding and accepting the risks, then that's fine.

And to be clear, the risks are not just the effects of the tune itself. That may be the least of it. It's if anything goes wrong and Porsche can blame the tune, they will. So, all of these electrical error and battery issue threads? Probably not good for you if your car is tuned. Even if you want to "hide" it (and assuming you even actually can), good luck next-daying your module somewhere when you have to flat-bed your car to the dealer.

For the record, my 911 is tuned. I take it in for service still tuned (even though I could flash back to stock at home). If something happens, that's on me (although my warranty will be up in about 10 months anyway). However, I feel (possibly incorrectly) that the risk of my 911 engine blowing is lower than a battery or drivetrain issue on the Taycan. Note that I'm perfectly fine with the risk of failure for normal driving (and knowing my warranty is not at risk). But make it a $50k+ bet and I'm out.

So, tuning the Taycan is not for me. But that's my personal risk/reward analysis on it. Other's can differ. And that's fine. But I worry if their premise is that their warranty is not at risk.

Yes and they know about the tune. They scanned it multiple times and are unable to notice anything.
Service was not power related. 10k service, brakes.

That's not particularly relevant IMO. First, the dealer doesn't approve warranty. I believe PCNA does (at least for Porsche in the US). Second, the dealer may not have access to all of the data and diagnostics. And not all of it may be direct. It could be indirect. I can tell all kinds of things about issues or how a processing line was run that even other programmers at my company can't (let alone outside 3rd parties) because they don't know what to look for the way I do. Some random person (or even their very best technician) at some dealership not being able to detect it (based on what efforts even...btw?) is fueling the above issue mentioned. Again. No issue with tuning. But eyes open please.

 

[daveo4EV]

also tuning your Taycan and then selling it before the 8 year/100,000 mile warranty is up - and then having a future owner be denied a warranty claim when porsche does a deep dive on the ECU and finds out it's been messed with…

yeah that's going to be one messy lawsuit…

tune your car, but then make sure you disclose it on sale and see how that goes for you…the balance of the warranty for battery 8 years/100,000 miles transfer to next owner…and i believe they assume you've done nothing to the vehicle to place that warranty at risk…

unless you keep the vehicle post tune until the warranty runs out - it's not just you taking the risk - unless you disclose the tune as part of the sales documents…if you don't well that won't go well for you if there is a future issue…

tune all you want, i get that - but let's not pretend this is with out risks

good luck!

 

[bsclywilly]

We can probably keep the thread crapping to a minimum and avoid reposting the same opinion. It's valuable, we got it, but other's risk tolerance and judgement may differ.

For me, there are two risks at play here. The first is the risk of having to exercise the battery warranty in the first place. I've checked the health of my battery over the last 40k miles and don't think I'm at high risk of unusual degradation, despite putting it through the wringer on the track and fast charging. The second risk is whether the upgrade is detectable or not and that I have to take Redshift at their word. It was a pleasure to meet Mario and hear his and his developers background.

I think this is an amazing upgrade, and value, and something to look forward to in the future for EV tuning in general. It's commendable to be one of the first in the industry with a true performance upgrade.

BTW, it makes a huge difference on a 4CT!

 

[daveo4EV]

also - let's be clear on my position…

do I believe this tune will cause problems? no I do not!! I have zero concern about the tune causing an actual problem…
can a tune like this cause a problem? only maybe and only in certain circumstances - but it pretty unlikely in my opinion.

but when there is a problem in the future "post tune" you're simply handing PCNA a ready made airtight process by which they can (and most likely will) shirk their responsibilities to honor the warranty…

basically I dont' trust PCNA and prefer not to give them any leeway when it comes to warranty issues.

the tune isn't going to cause any actual problems that were not there in the first place, but once you've done the tune I have very little faith Porsche won't use it as an excuse to get out of fixing a battery issue…

 

[Jhenson29]

The second risk is whether the upgrade is detectable or not and that I have to take Redshift at their word.

Hmm. What’s their confidence level? Will Redshift pick up the cost if it is detected and a warranty claim is denied as a result?

 

[redshift-performance]

I was wondering how you guys can unlock >800hp when the Turbo S only has max 700 something in launch control? Do the cars have that much reserve that Porsche is not making available?

Taycan & e-tron GTs are the manufacturers first full fledged EVs on the market and they took a conservative approach (That's Germans for you ) while leaving some headroom in terms of performance. We make use of that available reserve and make it available to the driver. The new generation Taycan will exceed the current generation model in terms of performance by a good margin which goes to show that they are pushing the boundaries with every generation.

 

[bsclywilly]

I agree with @daveo4EV but I don't see this being any different than with any ICE upgrade. I would even argue that ICE upgrades are even more obvious to the dealer.

In my mind I'm wording it more like this...

but when if there is a problem in the future "post tune" you're simply potentially handing PCNA a ready made airtight process by which they can (and most likely will) shirk their responsibilities to honor the warranty…

Hmm. What’s their confidence level? Will Redshift pick up the cost if it is detected and a warranty claim is denied as a result?

That risk is on you. Weren't you paying attention to the RL posts?

 

[Jhenson29]

That risk is on you. Weren't you paying attention to the RL posts?

Missed my point….

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