Taycan vs Telsa M3P thoughts?

[Archimedes]

Hmmmm. Your snip takes my comment completely out of context. I said that you want your car to be smooth. If you are pushing a car, your inputs will not be "smooth" if you are keeping the car smooth. When you watch the inputs of F1 drivers, their inputs are not smooth. If your inputs are smooth (as so many amateur track drivers are told they should be), you will either be viciously slow or viciously in a wall somewhere. I was praising Porsche because they tend to give drivers much more control to keep the car smooth, which is harder if your throttle is like an on/off switch. In any event, not quite sure how my observation would elicit such a response, but throughout your history in F1, I doubt watching the drivers correct and make numerous rapid inputs would look smooth . . .

And while not F1, these videos shows inputs pretty well for people who I think were pushing their cars pretty hard:

In short, you have to drive the car by giving the inputs that are required, and those do not always look smooth. Driving instructors who focus on the inputs as opposed to the car are doing a disservice, and the old "smooth is fast" mantra in the amateur ranks is more often than not referring to the inputs rather than the car . . . and that is BS.

How much track time do you have and in what cars?

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[TDinDC]

Whatever, but I will still take Jackie, Michael Schumacher, Alan Jones, Nelson Piquet, Carlos Reutemann, Alain Prost, Jacques Lafitte amongst others as probably better and more knowledgeable drivers than the ones you know, I’m afraid.

I give up. I feel like you are intentionally misreading what I have said.

 

[TDinDC]

How much track time do you have and in what cars?

Who cares? To have a stupid online debate about something I’m not even trying to say?

 

[f1eng]

Who cares? To have a stupid online debate about something I’m not even trying to say?

My original reply was to a cut and paste of what you actually wrote, but I agree, a pointless “debate”

 

[Archimedes]

Who cares? To have a stupid online debate about something I’m not even trying to say?

Because pretty much everything you said in your post was wrong, and I was just wondering if you actually had any track experience to back it up.

 

[bsclywilly]

 

[TDinDC]

Because pretty much everything you said in your post was wrong, and I was just wondering if you actually had any track experience to back it up.

And just like that . . .

No it isn’t. This thread is just as inexplicable to me as your post is. This thread is like someone saying “I killed at the comedy club last night” and then someone else only quoting “I killed” and then lecturing on how murder is wrong and bad. Ok, yes the original words were quoted, but only partially and out of context. Of course murder is wrong and bad. Nobody was arguing otherwise.

There isn’t a real debate here. Of course keeping your car smooth is the goal, and neither I nor anybody else has claimed otherwise. It’s silly.

The irony here is that I said that the saying “smooth is fast” is BS while making the point that the Taycan is so much faster because it is smooth, but it doesn’t feel faster than an MP3 because you don’t have any drama (I.e., no corrective inputs are needed because the car is set up so much better). I can’t imagine this is controversial, and I don’t think it’s wrong. As one example, I compared aggressive throttle mapping in Tesla to smoother in Taycan and how that actually takes control away from the driver. This isn’t controversial, and it’s not wrong even if some prefer more aggressive throttle mapping.

I subsequently clarified, correctly in my experience, that the saying “smooth is fast” gets misapplied all the time to drivers inputs in amateur track days where amateur driving instructors are coaching amateur drivers. If I didn’t make the point clearly enough initially, ok, but I did subsequently elaborate. And that’s not an insult to driving coaches. I would never do that so hats off to them

Now, I also wouldn’t argue with someone about whether people get told that in track days (why would I?), but when they are, it’s incredibly misleading. And sure, inputs when not needed is also stupid, but I would assume we were all beyond that basic truth as well.

So then Frank says that the only time you need inputs like that are when your car isn’t set up correctly. Well, you certainly need them a lot more when you have a car that isn’t set up correctly so where’s the argument there?

But if you need an input for whatever reason (I also don’t think it should be controversial that even a great driver can push a street car to its limits and need inputs without us needing to say that the street car is garbage, but sure, if it is set up better less inputs undoubtedly would be needed) you damned well had better make the correction/input as quickly as needed without being too slow in the name of smoothness or bad things happen. Again, not controversial, or at least should not be, and not wrong. See Senna NSX video. NSX looks smooth from outside, but his inputs are not smooth. If he hadn’t made them, I assume he would have been off track at various points. Again, not controversial or wrong.

At this point, and I have no idea why an enjoyable conversation that created good excuses to post cool videos has devolved into the things I hate the most about the internet with comments like “I know famous people and I believe them with respect to a point you are not even trying to argue” and then you weighing in with “have you even ever driven a car” type comments. Who cares? What would it matter what I said now? Why the ad hominum? It’s just so boring, petty, unkind and ungenerous. And if you or anyone else wants to win the Internet, then fine, you win. I have no desire to even compete in this nonsense. It’s just below me. And I am hopeful that it’s below everyone else here. If you or anyone else wants this to devolve into the “mine is bigger than yours” or “I’m smarter than you are” nonsense, find it from someone else because I’m comfortable enough not to even discuss these types of points with strangers.

Taycan is faster than MP3 because it is so much smoother and no drama. Teslas can feel faster because so many more inputs and corrections are needed to go even 3/4S as fast as in the Taycan. I don’t think I’m wrong on this point either, which is where this nonsense all began.

 

[Mr.Smith]

I drove the EQE AMG and I was pleasantly surprised on the speed and handling. There are a lot of incentives right now too.

It's smaller and closer in size to the Model 3.

 

[f1eng]

I drove the EQE AMG and I was pleasantly surprised on the speed and handling. There are a lot of incentives right now too.

It's smaller and closer in size to the Model 3.

I liked the look of it and have had an E-class, on and off, now for over 30 years.
Here in the UK the powful one base price is more than my Taycan with options, despite being less powerful and the paintwork options were 7 monochrome variations and two colours I didn't care for.
The only interior colour in the powerful model was black, as usual, boring.

It also looks like there is only a boot lid rather than the more versatile tailgate of the EQS (I would have expected the other way round)

So not for me!

 

[Bao1303]

Also tried the EQE AMG 43 when we started our EV journey, was really impressed. Had hybrids for years but this was the first pure EV I ever tried, then tried the I4 and IX. All excellent transportation items, but still just that. Coming from Norway, a "fun" car has never been an option due to cost, last time I drove anything on 4 wheels that was fun was in my teens when we had tuned beetles with the body removed and drove those on mountain roads, 30 od years ago.. Then on a whim we checked with Porsche as the CT could suit our needs (at least on paper) and they had one single allocation left for 2022. Being electric and all economic incentives still in place for 2022, price wasnt bad either relatively speaking (at least not until specced to our liking...). What a blast this car is given its a 2.3 ton lump. Drives like nothing else in its segment, Proper boot, comfy as a daily, good adjustable ground clearance and gravel mode for the snowy season, excellent AWD performance, nice cabin at least to our subjective taste, looks great. Apart from cabin and cargo space and slight issues with elegant egress I dont really see any contenders. Software niggles yes but so has all of my non EV cars had as well as does any "computer". You have to press ctl+alt+del from time to time or do a hard reset with the swedish button. Doesnt bother me. Also I dont like SUVs but have been forced by my better half up until now. This car to me is a jack of all trades, a proper Win win. Cant wait to swap the studded tires for proper summers

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