Where's the WiFi Menu?

[evanevery]

Oh looks like I may have been wrong!

Wireless CarPlay has three requirements, a Bluetooth connection, a Wi-Fi access point, and location data. Here’s is a simplified breakdown of the entire process:

1. To initialize the connection the phone uses Bluetooth to send a signal to the head unit requesting to connect.
2. Once the Bluetooth connection is made the phone will request wireless credentials to the Wi-Fi access point.
3. Upon confirmation the head unit will send the wireless credentials to the iPhone, which will cause the phone to search and join the Wi-Fi access point.
4. After the Wi-Fi connection has been established, the Bluetooth signal will disconnect and all audio and video will be transferred over Wi-Fi.
5. And now you’re set, you now can use CarPlay wirelessly.

But that's still neither here nor there. Your phone will be using mobile data while CarPlay is active so the direction of connection doesn't really matter in the end, nor does it matter if the cars WiFi has data access either.

source: https://www.connectedcarlife.com/tech/how-does-wireless-apple-carplay-work/

So bluetooth for hand-shaking (credentials) and then WiFi for ongoing data transfer. I get it. Thanks!

Do you know if this works in MY21 USA vehicles also? ...at least that would be something!

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[KensingtonPark]

Wireless Carplay does indeed connect to the car's WiFi. However, as @evanevery correctly notes, the WiFi in the car does not grant the device access to the car's LTE radio for internet connectivity. For that, the iPhone will still use it's own LTE (or 5G) radio to connect to the internet. As @evanevery notes, the Taycan's WiFi is only for connectivity to the Taycan itself, not for using its internet connectivity. In the US, the Taycan's LTE radio is used solely to allow the following:

• Communicate with Porsche Connect servers
• Receive map updates
• Stream to the builtin Apple Music app (but NOT to the Apple Music app on your phone)

It is entirely possible that Porsche could change this in the future, but they have not initially enabled it this way, likely because the data plan is currently free. When/if this expires and you need to pay to have the car added to your own data plan, then there is a chance that they would allow internet access (although I'm not sure why you would want it).

 

[Scandinavian]

The WiFi does have internet connection despite what an annoying forum member tells you (I just gave up on him).
Where else would these map updates come from then?
How does the Porsche server know what settings the car has if it didn't have a working Internet connection? (settings are stored in the cloud).

@Dee , I think you are mixing things up badly here and this is blatantly incorrect!
You do not need any WiFi connection for the map updates, traffic updates connect updates, server updates etc etc. That is all done via the cellular network! That is why the car has a built in SIM ( or e-Sim). The car will have Internet connections that way just like you have with your phone when you use it with Waze or stream music or a Video!

Let us dampen down the tone here please!

 

[Scandinavian]

In the US, the Taycan's LTE radio is used solely to allow the following:

• Communicate with Porsche Connect servers
• Receive map updates
• Stream to the builtin Apple Music app (but NOT to the Apple Music app on your phone)

That is the same in Europe. All these services are via LTE!

 

[ejcintr]

That is the same in Europe. All these services are via LTE!

Now that being said- Porsche should have the internal wifi connection enabled for updates when attached to a home (or other) wifi network... other companies do this.. I am hoping there is a path in the taycan com bus to enable this and its not hardwired to only the LTE connection (if so someone should get fired).. and in many cases the cellular provider they are using may not have connectivity at the owners home so using wifi would be preferred (and the update downloads would go much faster)... I do not understand why this is not enabled day one - this is not cutting edge rocket science stuff.. its table stakes.

 

[chrisk]

Moreover, it is unlikely they will push any major OTA update over LTE. These updates can be several Gigabytes and downloading them over your home's wifi is preferred.

 

[evanevery]

Now that being said- Porsche should have the internal wifi connection enabled for updates when attached to a home (or other) wifi network... other companies do this.. I am hoping there is a path in the taycan com bus to enable this and its not hardwired to only the LTE connection (if so someone should get fired).. and in many cases the cellular provider they are using may not have connectivity at the owners home so using wifi would be preferred (and the update downloads would go much faster)... I do not understand why this is not enabled day one - this is not cutting edge rocket science stuff.. its table stakes.

The car doesn't need to do OTA updates by WiFi at all!

Additionally, unless someone has documentation which indicates otherwise, the "HotSpot" is not meant to connect to your home network anyway. "Hotspots" don't take service, they provide service... Yes, your car can be a "client" (as it is with LTE), but it doesn't have anything to do with the "HotSpot"...

Anyway...

What makes you think you need WiFi to do OTA updates? There is no reason for this. Your car can download OTA firmware via LTE for as long as it takes to get the complete "package". You don't sit there and wait for an update to download. The car (like your cellphone) can download the update in the background. You only need to be informed AFTER it has fully downloaded the update, run a checksum to confirm its integrity, and is ready to be installed.

How long was that last update "downloading" on your cell phone? When did it start? You have no idea, right? That's because it really doesn't matter. What difference is it if your car downloads an update in 4 days, 4 hours, or 4 minutes? Download speed has absolutely nothing to do with download integrity.

This is exactly the way it works for Tesla. Although Tesla will connect to an external WiFi access point, most users (like me) get their updates via LTE. I have absolutely no idea of when my Model-X starts downloading, or how long it takes to fully download, I just get notified when an update is ready to install. It happens fairly frequently and is a non-issue...

Someone does, however, need to inform Porsche that you shouldn't have to take your car in to the dealer to get an "OTA update". If I HAVE to take my car to the dealer to get an update, it is of little difference to me if they do it via LTE, WiFi, Punch Card, or Carrier Pigeon...

Which is better: Having to schedule a service appointment a week or more in advance? ...or having a true OTA update download in the background? ...even if it took a couple of days!

 

[ejcintr]

The car doesn't need to do OTA updates by WiFi at all!

Additionally, unless someone has documentation which indicates otherwise, the "HotSpot" is not meant to connect to your home network anyway. "Hotspots" don't take service, they provide service... Yes, your car can be a "client" (as it is with LTE), but it doesn't have anything to do with the "HotSpot"...

Anyway...

You don't need WiFi to do OTA updates. There is no reason for this. Your car can download OTA firmware via LTE for as long as it takes to get the complete "package". You don't sit there and wait for an update to download. The car (like your cellphone) can download the update in the background. You only need to be informed AFTER it has fully downloaded the update, run a checksum to confirm its integrity, and is ready to be installed.

How long was that last update "downloading" on your cell phone? When did it start? You have no idea, right? That's because it really doesn't matter. What difference is it if your car downloads an update in 4 days, 4 hours, or 4 minutes? Download speed has absolutely nothing to do with download integrity.

This is exactly the way it works for Tesla. Although Tesla will connect to an external WiFi access point, most users (like me) get their updates via LTE. I have absolutely no idea of when my Model-X starts downloading, or how long it takes to fully download, I just get notified when an update is ready to install. It happens fairly frequently and is a non-issue...

Someone does, however, need to inform Porsche that you shouldn't have to take your car in to the dealer to get an "OTA update". If I HAVE to take my car to the dealer to get an update, it is of little difference to me if they do it via LTE, WiFi, Punch Card, or Carrier Pigeon...

Which is better: Having to schedule a service appointment a week or more in advance? ...or having a true OTA update download in the background for a couple of days?

I did not say it had to only to get OTA updates by wifi- my iphone gets updates via wifi or lte but since my cellular provider has one bar at my house I get almost all of my IOS updates via wifi and yes I do know how long an update download happens on my cellphone via LTE or wifi at my house (in one case LTE it does not happen with wifi it does)- and while it does not have anything to do with download integrity it certainly effects download time. And download time affects availability of the bugs or issues that the download can correct... if your update has a critical security issue you will care if it takes 4 days vs 4 minutes if you are affected by that security issue or bug. You should get an update via the fastest connection available... and I agree OTA updates need to be addressed without going to a dealer.

 

[evanevery]

I did not say it had to only to get OTA updates by wifi- my iphone gets updates via wifi or lte but since my cellular provider has one bar at my house I get almost all of my IOS updates via wifi and yes I do know how long an update download happens on my cellphone via LTE or wifi at my house (in one case LTE it does not happen with wifi it does)- and while it does not have anything to do with download integrity it certainly effects download time. And download time affects availability of the bugs or issues that the download can correct... if your update has a critical security issue you will care if it takes 4 days vs 4 minutes if you are affected by that security issue or bug. You should get an update via the fastest connection available... and I agree OTA updates need to be addressed without going to a dealer.

Traditionally, big downloads are packetized so integrity checks can be done in smaller chunks. Usually, the whole package does not need to be re-downloaded. The network protocol itself (TCP) even supports this to some degree internally. (However, I would never try to guess how Porsche Software Engineers would do this...)

It doesn't matter to me in any case. I guess we'll just have to disagree. I could care less how long it takes to download an update (within reason of course) or how its delivered...

I'm not an iPhone user. What component on your iPhone is telling you that an IOS download "is in progress"? How do you know when it starts? I can see them begin to get "installed" on my iPad, but not when the download starts... Android, like Tesla, just say "an update is ready to be installed"...

 

[Dee]

@Dee , I think you are mixing things up badly here and this is blatantly incorrect!
You do not need any WiFi connection for the map updates, traffic updates connect updates, server updates etc etc. That is all done via the cellular network! That is why the car has a built in SIM ( or e-Sim). The car will have Internet connections that way just like you have with your phone when you use it with Waze or stream music or a Video!

Let us dampen down the tone here please!

Let me simplify my statement:
Does or doesn't a Taycan have a connection to the internet?
If yes: there you go, all I'm saying.
If no: how does the car know your Porsche-ID?
And where is you Porsche-ID stored?
Well, there you go, my point.

My other (still unanswered) question:
How come my WiFi hotspot and my bluetooth connection point have the same name? (see my previous post).

 

[ejcintr]

Generally, big downloads are packetized so they do an integrity check in smaller chunks. Usually, the whole package does not need to be re-downloaded. (I would never guess how Porsche Software Engineers would do this though...)

It doesn't matter to me in any case. I guess we'll just have to disagree. I could care less how long it takes to download an update (within reason of course) or how its delivered...

I'm not an Apple user. What component on your iPhone is telling you that an IOS download "is in progress"? How do you know when it starts? I can see them start to get "installed" on my iPad, but not when the download begins... Android, like Tesla, just say "an update is ready to be installed"...

In IOS- General/SW Updates - I have it set to automatically download and install- but I can initiate a download myself or see the download in action when it is automatically downloading the update. If the security bug or issue addressed by the download is something I want to address sooner rather than later I manually initiate the download for instance right now it is waiting to download IOS 14.3. I guess my primary issue is that by having the only way to update the code is via an LTE connection you are confined to using Porsches cellular provider ( I can't change their SIM). Hopefully Porsche's provider has decent coverage in your location - if you happen to live in an area where that provider sucks well I guess your SOL until you can get the car into a location that provides decent coverage.. same thing with Porsche Connect (amongst its many issues it can only communicate to the car via LTE).. the car clearly has a wifi chip in it.. I assume it is connected to the com bus and ip goes across both wifi and LTE- why is it not enabled? My 2013 F150 gets its updates via wifi for its Sync system.... why not my porsche...

 

[NormF]

The ability to connect to a external wifi is NOT enabled in North America. A Porsche decision.

 

[Dee]

Be aware of the update button in your Porsche-ID.
Standard it's off (it may be the reason you haven't received any updates yet).
Just a heads up.

 

[ejcintr]

The ability to connect to a external wifi is NOT enabled in North America. A Porsche decision.

I thought the wifi hotspot in the car was not available in NA. So in europe etc they can get updates via a wifi connection ?

 

[Dee]

I thought the wifi hotspot in the car was not available in NA. So in europe etc they can get updates via a wifi connection ?

WiFi is the connection to the internet (through the LTE) but isn't enabled yet as far as I know.
Only the car itself has access to internet so far.

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