22kw upgrade concern appearing on porsche car configurator.

[tigerbalm]

This unfortunately has been my current experience with the 22kW charger. Of course – this might not apply to everyone with it. I have never been given – but am seeking – a clear understanding of why I keep experiencing this:

Date	Description	# of weeks ownership
13 Feb, 2021	I take delivery of the car	-
25 Feb, 2021	AC charger failure	2 weeks
30 April, 2021	AC charger replaced and car fixed	11 weeks
2 July, 2021	AC charger fails 2nd time	20 weeks
13 August, 2021	AC charger replaced and car fixed	26 weeks
19 March, 2022	AC charger fails 3rd time	59 weeks (1 year 7 weeks)
Estimated: 8 April, 2022	AC charger replaced for 4th time and car fixed	63 weeks (1 year 11 weeks)

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[soawjo]

As I have the 22kw on board charger, i'm being a good boy and have dialled my EVSE back to 25 amp - Which I was under the impression (from the configurator) would equate to 6kwh charging speed. However, looking at the MyPorsche app, it's giving me only 5.1 to 5.4kw.

Do you think it would be potentially harmful if i increased the amperage on the evse until I hit the 6kwh in the car that the configurator 'recommends'?

I realise there is little clarity from Porsche on what the actual problem is with the 22kw unit when charging single phase.

Thoughts?

I'm pretty sure that the 6 kW that Porsche recommends means what the EVSE delivers to the on-board charger, not what is being delivered to the battery (which is what is being displayed by the My Porsche app and will always be lower due to losses). If you want to be a really good boy, i'd stick to what you have at the moment, but really, where has this 6 kW figure come from? It's a suspiciously round number so I'd guess it's just something that Porsche have come up with to be on the safe side and an extra 0.5 kW or so won't matter that much

 

[tigerbalm]

The fact the configurator has been the only place I've ever seen this mentioned is also really frustrating. There seems to be no proper guidance available. How did this end up on the configurator but has no Tech Bulletin to back it up? Most Porsche Centre's know no more than potential customers on it.

 

[W1NGE]

The fact the configurator has been the only place I've ever seen this mentioned is also really frustrating. There seems to be no proper guidance available. How did this end up on the configurator but has no Tech Bulletin to back it up? Most Porsche Centre's know no more than potential customers on it.

Perhaps it's simply a cock up and not relevant at all.

None of this explains your trials and tribulations with this option unfortunately.

Perhaps a forum poll is needed to gauge who has the 22kW option and of those who has had failures?

 

[BigBob]

Perhaps it's simply a cock up and not relevant at all.

None of this explains your trials and tribulations with this option unfortunately.

Perhaps a forum poll is needed to gauge who has the 22kW option and of those who has had failures?

It's certainly a cock up if they've got faulty components. But the weakness, whatever it may be, does seem real and been identified by the manufacturer. Obviously we don't know if it's a 0.1% risk or causing damage or 25% problem to cause an issue in the warranty period, as porsche basically radio silence. I've asked again what timescale and fix will be. Given the factories are largely shut down, perhaps the engineers will retool to fix things like this.

 

[whitex]

Most Porsche Centre's know no more than potential customers on it.

Sounds like Porsche is adopting the Tesla model, where information is released through random online sources (website, twitter, NHTSA bulletins, even word of mouth spreading via forums), then customers educate Tesla personnel on many occasions, including both sales and service.

 

[batteredhaddock]

The fact the configurator has been the only place I've ever seen this mentioned is also really frustrating. There seems to be no proper guidance available. How did this end up on the configurator but has no Tech Bulletin to back it up? Most Porsche Centre's know no more than potential customers on it.

I chased the Technical contact at my OPC on this yesterday as I’d first raised it with her in November. She said she’s going to chase Porsche technical again so in the unlikely event she gets a useful response I’ll share.

 

[f1eng]

It is clear they know the 22kW charger is unreliable on a single phase supply.
I am sure they are in the process of a re-design which may mean a new specification to the supplier, who presumably matched their technical brief in terms of testing.

There is almost certainly a space constraint and it seems an extremely expensive option to me so is probably difficult to make.

I am sure Porsche won't broadcast this problem until they have a fix though, that would create more problems.

 

[whitex]

I am sure Porsche won't broadcast this problem until they have a fix though, that would create more problems.

Those chargers are likely not cheap since they need some heavy duty power electronics with liquid cooling, and definitely not meant to be serviceable since they are welded shut for safety I presume (I picked up a used US version to play with, to get into it I will need to use some metal cutting tools/grinders). This means it's a complete module replacement. If the original supplier doesn't pick up the bill (depends on their contract), Porsche might not even proactively recall the charger, but instead replace only the ones which fail - cheaper that way. People who don't experience this problem, including those who limit down their charging current, might never see a replacement charger.

PS> I find it extremely puzzling why Porsche does not have a way to limit the charging via software. When specing out the charger to their supplier, it would make total sense to ask for some sort of software control in the even they needed to deal with problems with the chargers, problems with batteries, or perhaps even limit charging when in extreme hot or cold environments. The charger itself obviously has the hardware to limit current, since it has to observe real time limits set by the EVSE, so adding an additional limit from the PCM (which already talks to the charger via hybrid CAN bus to get information to display and tell it when to start/stop charging) should have been simple to do in software. I wonder if this is an example of cost optimization, Porsche didn't think they needed it, so they cut it out of their requirements to save on NRE costs of adding this feature to the charger software?

 

[whitex]

Perhaps a forum poll is needed to gauge who has the 22kW option and of those who has had failures?

While a poll would provide good additional data, the fact that @tigerbalm is on his 4th charger suggests this is a actual common problem. If it was only 1 in 1000 chargers, getting 3 bad ones in a row is very unlikely (1 in a billion chance), especially when not from the same production batch. Of course there is also a chance that he got a bad car which is killing chargers, but the warning on Porsche configurator suggests it's not just his car.

 

[W1NGE]

While a poll would provide good additional data, the fact that @tigerbalm is on his 4th charger suggests this is a actual common problem. If it was only 1 in 1000 chargers, getting 3 bad ones in a row is very unlikely (1 in a billion chance), especially when not from the same production batch. Of course there is also a chance that he got a bad car which is killing chargers, but the warning on Porsche configurator suggests it's not just his car.

Possibly but it could also be something unique to his car acting as a catalyst. Truth is we don't know and neither (apparently) do Porsche.

Poll would still be of interest in sure.

 

[Jhenson29]

(I picked up a used US version to play with, to get into it I will need to use some metal cutting tools/grinders).

Will you be starting a thread and posting pics? I want to follow that. ?

Of course there is also a chance that he got a bad car which is killing chargers

Yes, this. It’s either a design issue in the part or another component causing the failure that’s not getting replaced (…or both).

 

[batteredhaddock]

I chased the Technical contact at my OPC on this yesterday as I’d first raised it with her in November. She said she’s going to chase Porsche technical again so in the unlikely event she gets a useful response I’ll share.

Update, technical contact spoke again with Porsche today. Have confirmed that there will be a fix incoming, expected in next 3 months. Expected will be a workshop visit so may actually be a new part (not 100% on that yet). Either way 7.4kW charging should be an option again on the 22kW part ?. I'll stick to my 24A and avoid 7kW public charging till then which is easily done for myself.

 

[whitex]

Will you be starting a thread and posting pics? I want to follow that. ?

I will share here at some point, though the charger teardown will probably not happen for a long time, partially because it would be potentially destructive, and because one has to be real careful around anything which can put out 800V. I have other Porsche ECU's I will be playing with first, but my "Taycan on the bench" project is a bit on a backburner now, with many reasons contributing:

1. I thought I would have had a Porsche by now (~10 months since putting down the first deposit - not even an allocation in sight). It is a lot easier to reverse engineer things if you have a working product to see how things are supposed to work, or how they are interconnected.
2. I have not been able to source the PCM primary display for my "Taycan on the bench" project. Perhaps the screen doesn't survive crashes as well as other parts?
3. I've got a busy life, lately having less time for fun projects like this.

For now I will leave you with my first impressions of the Porsche charger. It is slightly larger and heavier than I expected (not that I have a lot of experience with high power DC chargers though). That red ruler on top of it in the picture below is about 30cm (12"). It weighs 10kg (22lb) empty - no cooling liquids. It's also welded shut so obviously not meant to be serviceable.

 

[tigerbalm]

I always thought - at least the European 22 kW version – that this charger was manufactured by Hitachi in Germany.

Be interested if my hunch was right - any sense of the manufacturer of your part?

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