Gearbox: totally unnecessary.

[bosbruce]

You should say that the Porsche rear motor sucks a few more times. I don’t think you’ve made your trolling point yet…

Apologies for being overly dramatic on that. I really like the Taycan in so many (design, handling,...) ways but it was a tough battle for me deciding between the MUCH quicker than even Turbo S Tesla Plaid S (with the horrible new joke/yoke, horrible brakes, questionable build quality, and 8 year old sedan style) and the Taycan... In the end I chose Taycan 4S because it was quick enough, had better brakes/handling/styling and almost certainly build quality... But the low torque of that rear motor and decision to use it with a 2 speed transmission to compensate for that is one area that I've had a hard time getting over. So when I saw a thread where OP was echoing so many of my concerns I got carried away. One reason I've loved my 6 EVs so far is the same reason I have owned 5 performance cars with 6 speed manuals (and a few more with 5 speed manuals before that) : There will always be edge cases with an automatic transmission where it shifts at an inopportune moment ... My 6 EVs so far were all single geared, and I'm just hoping I'll come to love driving the Taycan 4S despite an automatic transmission where one shouldn't be needed.

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[Jhenson29]

I'm just hoping I'll come to love driving the Taycan 4S despite an automatic transmission where one shouldn't be needed.

I completely understand the issue with automatics in an ICE car and strongly prefer manuals myself.

That said, I don’t think the Taycan really suffers the same issues. In an ICE, you don’t typically cruise at high rpm, which means you often need to downshift when you want more wheel torque…and it’s reactionary and delayed in automatic mode.

But cruising at high rpm with an electric motor is less of an issue. So, it can cruise in an optimal torque gear without needing to downshift when torque is requested.

If you look at the the shift graph for sport, the torque request is nearly vertical and nearly down to zero torque.

This means that the shift point is pretty much always at the same speed, regardless of how you drive, and you aren’t typically waiting for a downshift for torque.

Plus, there are only two gears. The band of speed in which shifting even makes sense is much narrower.

In practice, I don’t think it’s really an issue.

Plus, coasting is awesome. Not really a function of the two-speed gearbox. But a difference to Tesla.

 

[gnop1950]

@Jhenson29 I completely agree that it should be/is a non-issue. I rarely/ever even notice the shift unless I'm specifically looking for it (mostly after reading the forums).

I understand the discussion from an intellectual perspective, but I really don't understand the angst some people seem to have about the 2-speed gearbox. I'm sure Porsche could have chosen other methods, but this is the one they chose and, from my perspective, it seems to work very well.

Could they choose a different path in the future? Of course, but they could just as easily up the power of the motors and keep the 2-speed gearbox. I'll leave those decisions up to the Porsche engineers

 

[f1eng]

Could they choose a different path in the future? Of course, but they could just as easily up the power of the motors and keep the 2-speed gearbox. I'll leave those decisions up to the Porsche engineers

The most sensible post in this thread so far IMHO.

 

[Fish Fingers]

Apologies for being overly dramatic on that. I really like the Taycan in so many (design, handling,...) ways but it was a tough battle for me deciding between the MUCH quicker than even Turbo S Tesla Plaid S (with the horrible new joke/yoke, horrible brakes, questionable build quality, and 8 year old sedan style) and the Taycan... In the end I chose Taycan 4S because it was quick enough, had better brakes/handling/styling and almost certainly build quality... But the low torque of that rear motor and decision to use it with a 2 speed transmission to compensate for that is one area that I've had a hard time getting over. So when I saw a thread where OP was echoing so many of my concerns I got carried away. One reason I've loved my 6 EVs so far is the same reason I have owned 5 performance cars with 6 speed manuals (and a few more with 5 speed manuals before that) : There will always be edge cases with an automatic transmission where it shifts at an inopportune moment ... My 6 EVs so far were all single geared, and I'm just hoping I'll come to love driving the Taycan 4S despite an automatic transmission where one shouldn't be needed.

How fast do people want to drive on public roads?

And if its not on public roads, its on a track where the Taycan Turbo S should be quicker than any Tesla - as they have got all the important stuff that you mentioned (handling, brakes, chassis etc) sorted out way better Tesla.

Or, it may be on the Drag Strip. In which case stick with Tesla Plaid if 0-60 is important to you.

The chief designer of the Taycan said he drove every electric car, but his only bench mark was the 911.
Says it all really.

And as stared above, I also barely notice the gear change on my Taycan.
I trust Porsche engineers way more than I would Tesla.

 

[Dee]

I think most people here completely missed my point.
With or without a 2-speed gearbox there's no difference between Tesla and Porsche.
That way a 2-speed gearbox doesn't add any advantage in terms of performance in this current set-up.
I'm not discussing the gearbox doesn't work very well in real life, on the contrary, I love it.
My point is that it had so much more potential instead of using just one big motor like Tesla.
With a 2-speed gearbox it's possible to go much quicker and still be efficient due to it's second gear.
For instance:
Changing the gear ratio of 1st gear from 1:15 to 1:17, second gear from 1:8 to 1:9 to keep the motor in the power band while shifting for smooth and continuous acceleration (ie front motor from 1:8 to 1:9 too).
This way you'll loose some topspeed but gain torque in first AND second gear (which is quicker, not faster).
This set-up would have made the Taycan considerably quicker off the line and would prove that a 2-speed gearbox is the better choice when focussed on performance (which Porsche is all about, right?).
Now it's just meh in contrast to Tesla.

It works beautifully as is, don't get me wrong but man, there is so much more potential in using a 2-speed gearbox instead of just adding bigger motors...
A missed opportunity but who knows what Porsche comes up with next...

 

[XLR82XS]

With or without a 2-speed gearbox there's no difference between Tesla and Porsche.

Different motor design.

 

[Dee]

Different motor design.

I'm talking about performance, things you can actually experience.

 

[Dee]

I think if all you care about is 0-60 and literally nothing else, you gear the motor in for max speed at 60mph, which is (I think) around 1:21.

Well, the gearbox shifts to second gear at around 60mph so that doesn't make sense.
See my previous comment for explaining my point once again.

 

[Jhenson29]

Well, the gearbox shifts to second gear at around 60mph so that doesn't make sense.
See my previous comment for explaining my point once again.

I don’t know what doesn’t make sense about what I said so I have nothing further to comment.

 

[Jhenson29]

This set-up would have made the Taycan considerably quicker off the line and would prove that a 2-speed gearbox is the better choice when focussed on performance

It wouldn’t prove that at all.

The two-speed gear box is just one way. It’s not the only way.

If the Taycan is faster than another car with a single-speed gearbox, it’s faster as a complete system, not solely because of the two-speed gearbox.

If another car with a single speed gearbox is faster than the Taycan, it’s faster as a complete system, not solely because of the single speed gearbox.

This amount of focus on one aspect (the gearbox) without considering the system as a whole is rather pointless.

 

[Jhenson29]

Taycan is faster than a Chevy bolt to 60.
Clearly the 2-speed gearbox is a success!

Model S Plaid is faster than a Taycan to 60.
Clearly the 2-speed gearbox is a failure!

 

[gusone]

I obviously cannot add any value intellectually to this thread. But, today I floored the RWD on the A2 for the first time with the pedal to the metal and for the first time felt the boost as the second gear kicked in. Going to do that more. It was awesome. Totally shallow pointless post.

 

[Dee]

I obviously cannot add any value intellectually to this thread.

Totally shallow pointless post.

That is kinda funny: those two sentences cancel each other out.

On topic: I'm perfectly happy about the Taycan as it is now but obviously you missed my point to accentuate the unused potential of a 2-speed gearbox vs adding bigger motors too.
I don't blame you, it's probably me.

 

[gusone]

That is kinda funny: those two sentences cancel each other out.

On topic: I'm perfectly happy about the Taycan as it is now but obviously you missed my point to accentuate the unused potential of a 2-speed gearbox vs adding bigger motors too.
I don't blame you, it's probably me.

My post was shallow and pointless! Lost in translation.

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