Gearbox: totally unnecessary.

[Raphie]

I don’t Like Musk and I don’t like his cars. Why didn’t you order a Plaid?

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[whitex]

I don’t Like Musk and I don’t like his cars. Why didn’t you order a Plaid?

Short answer:

1. STALKLESS YOKE
2. some customer service issues (though Tesla seems to have fixed some of them recently)
3. constant experimentation on customers (also somewhat mitigated by Tesla by allowing you to use a stable/proven OTA updates vs. bleeding edge latest ones).
4. Lack of some features

Longer answer:
While I really enjoy power in cars, I wanted a car for more than just straight line acceleration. Taycan fit the bill. If there was a 1,200hp Taycan, I would have ordered that (unless it was only in launch control mode). I ordered a Taycan Turbo because I have no interest in launch control mode and Turbo S vs. Turbo only differ in launch mode. I also didn't want powered charge port (blocks air-scarf) or ceramic brakes (unnecessary and expensive to maintain). I enjoy the 30mph-80mph acceleration more than 0-60. Actually, even in my old Ludicrous Tesla I never launch it at full power (forget launch-mode which I have ever used exactly once, just to try it) because I don't keep my car pristine enough not to collect my belongings from the back seat after a launch. I do floor it on highways though, where I would pay for more power (hence Taycan Turbo vs. lower trims, 4S felt a bit lacking power on highways compared to Ludicrous Tesla, at least during my test drives). Had the Model S Plaid been offered with a round steering wheel with stalks (non of that all-touch controls bullshit), I would have had one while I waited for Porsche to hatch me a Taycan, which took almost 2 years (due for pickup next month if all goes well, the boat doesn't sink, etc. ).

 

[Hanny]

Not trying to answer a comment made for whitex but from my view point of someone moving to Porsche from Tesla, it’s subjective to personal experience and needs/wants.

To me it’s not all about 0-60 figures or who is leading/heading a manufacture, but more of the ‘time for a change’ coupled with a desire to have a more driver focused vehicle - Tesla on technology will be a hard act for many manufacturers to equal or surpass my personal view point, (sorry if controversial), is that Tesla is a technology company building cars and Porsche is a car company that is building technology in said cars.

This has resulted with many pro’s/con’s on both sides of a conversation that all come to the simple outcome that both Tesla and Porsche are great cars BUT only will only be better to an owner/purchaser based on their personal needs and wants. Thus I can’t see a definitive that answer that one can be better than another as a basis of having a two speed gearbox.
……..okay I’ll get my coat

 

[Raphie]

But Tesla is so ulitarian > ugly

 

[Hanny]

‘Beauty’ is always in the eye of the beholder……

 

[Raphie]

True, each to their own.

 

[whitex]

But Tesla is so ulitarian > ugly

Nothing wrong with utility of a product. In the US, the charging network is still hands down so much better than everyone else (Tesla does not allow non-Tesla cars to charge in the US). It just works, no apps needed, just plug in and charge. And if your argument is that those chargers are not actually from Porsche, then the argument becomes: Tesla has a huge network of chargers, Porsche has none available to the public (there are a few non public chargers at Porsche dealers - shop and delivery prep use only), so they rely on an unreliable charging networks from other companies. My wife recently had to do some unexpected driving, which left her in the middle of nowhere with not enough charge to get home. I was so glad she was in a Tesla, as this was a non-issue for her. She clicked one button, found a mall nearby with a Tesla charger, went there, plugged in, no apps, no calling customer service, went into the mall for 20 minutes, came out, unplugged and drove home. Read this forum for charging experiences of US Taycan drivers. I am about to attempt a 5,000km drive home in a Taycan, and even though I have a decade of Tesla driving trips under my belt, I am still apprehensive about doing it in a non-Tesla after reading other people's experiences.

Other things Tesla does better? Software. A lot more utilitarian, for example: want to set max desired charge level to 80%? Slide a slider under charging menu to 80%, done. Want to do the same for a Taycan, well, watch a bunch of videos, then get on a forum when your car does not charge as you expect, hopefully someone will help you out with profiles, timers, the fact than min charge actually means max charge, etc. Software also updates all over the air, no need to drop off your car for 3 days or more to get a major update, like the Taycan.

Another thing which I hope (though don't hold my breath on) Porsche copies is mobile techs. A large number of services for Tesla cars is done in your own garage, just book it on the app, pick a 3hr window during which a tech comes and performs the service. SO MUCH more convenient than booking an appointment with a dealer, then hoping you get a decent loaner, etc, etc.

Obviously I am switching from Tesla to a Taycan, so I decided it is a better car for me. Would I switch my wife to a Taycan over a Tesla, not so sure, will have to see how the Taycan does - I am the tester of new car brands in the family. Would I switch my retired parents from a Tesla to a Taycan, no way, not at this point in time.

 

[Dee]

Imagine what a new Turbo S with 1200hp and a gearbox would do, take off

More than a 1000hp in a car is useless in real life circumstances.
In my Turbo S I rarely can put all the power down without having the TC interfere.
For maximum acceleration you need four things:
1. Battery at ideal temperature and SOC.
2. Good, warm tires.
3. Clean, dry road.
4. Ambient temperature 25-30°C.

You probably can beat a Plaid cuz faster than 0-60 in under 2.5 seconds is almost impossible in real life circumstances, no matter how much hp you have, it all depends if you can get the power down..., i.e. grip.

 

[Raphie]

You are right. Nearly keeping up from 0-60 is enough, see them falling back from 60 onwards is just to funny.

 

[daveo4EV]

You guys need to drive more in Europe.

I have driven in Europe - got a speeding ticket in NL for going 4 km (2.4 mph) over the speed limit even though I was trying to be "good"
iceland - 90 kph max speed
switzerland - don't get me started
finland - will fine you based on your reported tax bracket for modest speed limit violations
england - the average speed camera's are a legend
france - yeah not speeding there
etc…

Canada/Australia while not being Europe proper have inheirated their approach to road legal speed enforcement - and in Australia I also got an average speeding ticket for 6 kph over the limit while driving the great ocean road…

let's not pretend Europe is an open race track - in fact MOST of europe is more conservative than North America regarding average/normal vehicle speeds - except for roads in Germany…everywhere else I'll take Route 66 in North America over virtually anything in Europe if want to open a vehicle up.

the simple fact of the matter is the Taycan's two speed transmission only shines in about less than 1% of any road system anywhere in the world, and it's specifications are only necessary at speeds that generally illegal in 99% of circumstances this vehicle will be driven…in fact the speeds at which the two speed transmission "shines" are speeds at which will lead to physical arrest in most/all countries vs a simple speeding ticket/fine.

0-60 is not quaint - it's in fact the only speeds one can utilize on a daily basis and represents the most common speeds anyone will achieve and is a daily use case - the "advantages" of the two speed transmission are only necessary or beneficial in Germany - the rest of Europe has speed limits that appear to my North American eye's and generally conservative and in most cases comically low…

just because 70% of the german autobaun has un-restricted speed -let's not pretend that is a Europe "wide open" thing - Europe will in fact throw your ass in jail at the drop of a hat - and fine you for speed limit violations that are with in the "error" factor of most drivers and their speedometers even when attempting to match posted limits.

 

[whitex]

You probably can beat a Plaid cuz faster than 0-60 in under 2.5 seconds is almost impossible in real life circumstances, no matter how much hp you have, it all depends if you can get the power down..., i.e. grip.

Rimac Nevera vs. Plaid drag race looks like Plaid vs Taycan TS.

 

[Dee]

...
the simple fact of the matter is the Taycan's two speed transmission only shines in about less than 1% of any road system anywhere in the world, and it's specifications are only necessary at speeds that generally illegal in 99% of circumstances this vehicle will be driven...

Oh no, not at all.
You make it sound so boring and mature.
Like, "you don't need 200hp in a car anyway"...
I've done acceleration sprints at traffic lights way more than going 250+km/h on certain highways.
Going at a steady 120 km/h on our highways makes it an efficient Taycan at the same time.
Isn't that just great?
I guess I use the gearbox exactly for what it was designed for: fast (1st gear) AND efficiënt (2nd gear).

 

[Dee]

Rimac Nevera vs. Plaid drag race looks like Plaid vs Taycan TS.

I don't think you got my point here.
With a Turbo S you can even keep up with a Rimac if the circumstances aren't ideal, like a dusty or a damp road.
I'm not talking about a prepped dragstrip which isn't every day's circumstances...
It's all about grip, not hp.
I've read somewhere that you can't get under 2 seconds with just street tires on.
You can't brake harder than you can accelerate either, it's all about grip.

 

[whitex]

I don't think you got my point here.
With a Turbo S you can even keep up with a Rimac if the circumstances aren't ideal, like a dusty or a damp road.
I'm not talking about a prepped dragstrip which isn't every day's circumstances...
It's all about grip, not hp.
I've read somewhere that you can't get under 2 seconds with just street tires on.
You can't brake harder than you can accelerate either, it's all about grip.

You are right. However once you're going say 40mph and hit the accelerator, TTS is no longer traction limited, not even on street tires on an average highway. That is where the additional hp helps. Plaid will have better highway passing speeds acceleration that a TTS. I suspect (since I've never driven one personally) that a Nevera will have even more power to put down.

Plaid doesn't have a gear box. It is more efficient than a TTS with a gearbox (farther range on same energy), and it has more power than a TTS (will accelerate faster as long as not traction limited). So perhaps the gearbox is not the only solution to speed and efficiency? It seem it's not better either.

 

[Dee]

You are right. However once you're going say 40mph and hit the accelerator, TTS is no longer traction limited, not even on street tires on an average highway. That is where the additional hp helps. Plaid will have better highway passing speeds acceleration that a TTS. I suspect (since I've never driven one personally) that a Nevera will have even more power to put down.

Plaid doesn't have a gear box. It is more efficient than a TTS with a gearbox (farther range on same energy), and it has more power than a TTS (will accelerate faster as long as not traction limited). So perhaps the gearbox is not the only solution to speed and efficiency? It seem it's not better either.

A gearbox is only used to compensate the shortcomings of a motor (electric or ice).
That's all there is.

Tesla has some very efficient motors, agree.
But the Taycan would consume more energy if it didn't have a gearbox in that perspective.
That's why I think there was more potential in the first gear (i.e. higher gear ratio) cuz you're already inefficient in comparison to Tesla anyway.

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