150kW DC-DC converter option

[ron_b]

At first I thought that this 150kW upgrade over the 50kW base converter was a no brainier option for USA, but now I am seriously considering dropping it from my confirmation though my dealership strongly suggests it.

Reason is that there are virtually no DCFC (fast chargers) that are over 50kW that are not already 800v and with other vehicles now using 800v charging I predict all new DCFC sites with >50kW will be 800v anyway.
So why pay more money for more weight? Porsche makes it very cheap for what it is, that's not the problem.

I did a PlugShare search for 70kW+ chargers in the USA that are not Electrify America and besides like 10 EVgo units in the Bay area and Los Angeles I see none and those locations have plenty of Electrify America which would be free anyway. The EVgo in Baker California also is 800v.

Oklahoma also has a bunch but that vendors website says they are 800v also, I will call to confirm that out of curiosity as I don't plan on going to Oklahoma.

Other EV folks know of any good reason to get the 150kW option?

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[epirali]

Your logic is sound, but I would say for the price think of it as ”insurance.” You may never use it, but you also don’t know who buys it next and what kind of other charging station MAY come online later?

 

[ron_b]

Your logic is sound, but I would say for the price think of it as ”insurance.” You may never use it, but you also don’t know who buys it next and what kind of other charging station MAY come online later?

Thanks @epirali I appreciate your insight. Sadly with all the delays I have more time to think about and watch what chargers come online. I do look at the Electrify America map closely and it's coming along nicely.

 

[tnikolov]

So why pay more money for more weight? Porsche makes it very cheap for what it is, that's not the problem.

Your logic is sound, although... I wouldn't worry much of the weight of a converter unit in a 2.2 ton behemoth

 

[TAYC4N]

I was told by the Porsche GB rep at the launch that this option is not required in the UK based on the same logic of ron_b.... I did not spec it.

See article here:

https://www.drivingelectric.com/com...itable-dont-make-charging-essentials-one-them

The text mentions:

It turns out that, in fact, because legislation means that all the 150kW chargers in the UK have super-modern 960V, they'll charge the Taycan at the full 150kW even if you haven’t added the optional DC on-board charging system. Or at least, according to research that Porsche has done, it will at some 95% or more.

 

[Dee]

I'm not sure if I understand your concern about a pretty handy and cheap option.

This is what I was told:
Dee, a Taycan can charge at 225 kW or 270 kW if the fast charger can handle 800 volts. If not, you will fall back to only 50 kW if you have not checked the extra 150 kW option during configuration.

So, for me, that's a no-brainer.

 

[TAYC4N]

In Europe it is a no brainer but for the UK it is apparently not required according to the article I posted above.

 

[Miwa]

All the new small EA sites I've seen pop up around here (like at the Togo's on Lawrence) have 150kW stations, but no 350kW.

The option is cheap, and the only reason to skip it in the US is if you're never planning on fast charging. I'll get that option, even though I don't really plan on ever fast charging.

 

[ron_b]

I'm not sure if I understand your concern about a pretty handy and cheap option.

This is what I was told:
Dee, a Taycan can charge at 225 kW or 270 kW if the fast charger can handle 800 volts. If not, you will fall back to only 50 kW if you have not checked the extra 150 kW option during configuration.

So, for me, that's a no-brainer.

So @Dee and @Miwa of course I plan to do fast charging and road trips. I don't find the $500 a burden; however, I don't want to add near useless options either.

The point is that the 50kW limit only applies if the charger only supports 400VDC. All of the Electrify America stations (150 or 350kW) are 800V capable so the car would charge at 150kW anyway.

The question is do you find 400V chargers that are over 50kW anywhere you want to go. I don't know of any except in areas where Electrify America has plentiful 800v stations.

P.S. would love to have Don @louv chime in if he saw any 400v chargers over 50kW on his trip.

 

[louv]

So @Dee and @Miwa of course I plan to do fast charging and road trips. I don't find the $500 a burden; however, I don't want to add near useless options either.

The point is that the 50kW limit only applies if the charger only supports 400VDC. All of the Electrify America stations (150 or 350kW) are 800V capable so the car would charge at 150kW anyway.

The question is do you find 400V chargers that are over 50kW anywhere you want to go. I don't know of any except in areas where Electrify America has plentiful 800v stations.

P.S. would love to have Don @louv chime in if he saw any 400v chargers over 50kW on his trip.

I don’t actually know the answer.

If the EA stations are all 800v capable* Regardless of their 150 vs 350kW rating, then it wouldn’t matter.

I looked at my charging spreadsheet... There are 150kW stations out there by "Flo", "EVgo", and PetroCanada. I suspect that the PetroCanada are all the same manufacturer as one of EA's station manufacturer (they source from 4 companies). I would guess that the Flo and EVgo are older, and *might* be only 400V. My car has the 400v 150kW option. So the fact that I've seen over 50kW on those 150kW stations doesn't provide proof.

PetroCanada also has many 200kW stations. (I used 14 of them). Again, I don't know their voltage capacity, and my car pulled more than 50kW from almost all of them.


My Conclusion:
I don't have a definitive answer, but in my opinion you always want to be able to charge AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. (Unless you are parked in your own driveway, overnight, and then it doesn't matter). So, having "all the options" for charging is a good idea.


*EA & PetroCanada stations that can charge the Taycan at 800v are actually rated at 1000v. I've got a photo of the label on the side of those stations somewhere... probably back in my RoadTrip Thread. Just tossing that out there... to whet your appetite for the future.

 

[Scandinavian]

At first I thought that this 150kW upgrade over the 50kW base converter was a no brainier option for USA, but now I am seriously considering dropping it from my confirmation though my dealership strongly suggests it.

Reason is that there are virtually no DCFC (fast chargers) that are over 50kW that are not already 800v and with other vehicles now using 800v charging I predict all new DCFC sites with >50kW will be 800v anyway.
So why pay more money for more weight? Porsche makes it very cheap for what it is, that's not the problem.

I did a PlugShare search for 70kW+ chargers in the USA that are not Electrify America and besides like 10 EVgo units in the Bay area and Los Angeles I see none and those locations have plenty of Electrify America which would be free anyway. The EVgo in Baker California also is 800v.

Oklahoma also has a bunch but that vendors website says they are 800v also, I will call to confirm that out of curiosity as I don't plan on going to Oklahoma.

Other EV folks know of any good reason to get the 150kW option?

Interesting observation @ron_b. I had not understood that a number of non Ionity chargers would also be 800 volt systems. I thought Porsche was first with that voltage in their cars? I guess the charging stations would have intelligence in them to discover whether the car has 400 volt or 800 volt battery? Certainly none of the Porsche dealers I have talked to, have mentioned this. I guess we have a number of older chargers in Europe that are 150 kW with only 400 volt.

I have tried to look at this along the routes that I would normally travel, but the information was not available.

 

[ron_b]

Interesting observation @ron_b. I had not understood that a number of non Ionity chargers would also be 800 volt systems. I thought Porsche was first with that voltage in their cars? I guess the charging stations would have intelligence in them to discover whether the car has 400 volt or 800 volt battery? Certainly none of the Porsche dealers I have talked to, have mentioned this. I guess we have a number of older chargers in Europe that are 150 kW with only 400 volt.

I have tried to look at this along the routes that I would normally travel, but the information was not available.

Yes the DCFC standard is good about negotiating voltage and current needs vs availability.

PlugShare has some info and you can filter by power, but it's only crowd sourced so accuracy varies. If I were in Europe I would probably just get the 150kW option, though Ionity is really taking off.

 

[MissionC]

I had this specced and am dropping it. I looked at all the non-EA chargers in my vicinity and none support 150 kw charging. Going to bank on the EA network getting more built out than finding a 150kw charger in New Englan.

 

[Chuck J]

I optioned it, but I think I have thrown away my $500. I find no sites where I plan to go that have more than 50KW.

Chuck J

 

[taycantom]

I was told by my adviser that if I opted out of the 150kW DC-DC option, I could not fast charge at EA and at dealerships and would be permanently limited to 9.6 kW charging everywhere. I’m not sure where to begin on how many things are wrong with that statement.

Anyone know of an official Porsche reference I can point to? I see third party sites and loose marketing material floating about, and he didn’t buy my description of: (A) home 240V / 9.6 kW charging vs (B) 400V / 50kW charging vs (C) 400V / 150 kW charging vs (D) 800V / 350 kW charging and how only (C) was affected by this option being present or not.

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