2020 Taycan 4S Revealed by Porsche!

KensingtonPark

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Performance-wise the 4S is comparable to the Model S Long Range which has a 0-60 time of 3.7 seconds, a tick faster than the 4S. It also has an EPA range of 370 miles. For a price of $80,000 with the only extra cost options being paint and interior colors and full self driving (base autopilot included). Much as with the Turbo vs. Model S Performance you are going to have to justify at least a 50% price premium if you want the Taycan.
The fact is that relatively few buyers who are considering an $80,000 car are potential buyers of a $140,000 car.
Totally agree with both points. I am simply noting that the performance numbers in this range are a pretty small factor. I think that--away from early adopters and enthusiasts like those of us on this forum--the way most people consider cars within a price range first before deciding on a car. Then they compare what they can get for that money. Enthusiasts are the opposite: they compare performance first, then look at the money. I can attest to this from my friends and neighbors (who are largely not enthusiasts) who have purchased and drive high-end vehicles. So some of these people really will compare a fully loaded Model S Performance (~$110K) against some version of the Taycan 4S (~$142K) because it is close enough. When the number was $200K, a lot of them wouldn't have even known that the Taycan even existed, in much the same way as my friends who drive S Class MBs don't know anything about Bentleys.
 

TheSnape

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Yes it does but it’s not the name in itself it’s all that it embodies, all the history and all that they have accomplished that is somehow transferred into every car that come off their lines.

Henry Catchpole was saying that it has very little in the form of that true 911 spirit... he however, hails all the 911s even late model ones..... and these exact same comments were given by the old school boys at the time the 911 got its first subframe to try to make it more of an everyman’s road car back in the late 1980s. So if that is one of the only complaint, that Porsche has just gotten even better at making cars than the previous models then I’m very happy. :)
Yeah, though to be honest, I think the Taycan has a lot of the true 911 spirit, and so many of the qualities you find in great sports cars - looks, speed, acceleration, handling
 

felixtb

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Yeah, though to be honest, I think the Taycan has a lot of the true 911 spirit, and so many of the qualities you find in great sports cars - looks, speed, acceleration, handling
my point exactly.. Mr. C. is just growling because he is not convinced about EVs in general so needs to find a problem where there in reality isn’t really one except for the weight but even this has been hidden soooo well that it has been reduced to a minor problem.
 

TheSnape

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my point exactly.. Mr. C. is just growling because he is not convinced about EVs in general so needs to find a problem where there in reality isn’t really one except for the weight but even this has been hidden soooo well that it has been reduced to a minor problem.
I really don't understand that. How would the 911 spirit be affected in any way by the propulsion system it's using? I would say it has more to do with the looks, speed, acceleration and handling. I actually think that the Taycan, personally, looks even more beautiful than the 911, though I'm slightly younger, and it's hands down the most beautiful in my lifetime

I do think the weight is a problem, it handles really well - even compared to petrol/diesel cars. But I think if they get the weight down, maybe by lighter battery pack, it'll handle better than pretty much any car full stop, I really hope they refine it enough so one day it'll be competitive with somebody like Lotus
 

felixtb

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I really don't understand that. How would the 911 spirit be affected in any way by the propulsion system it's using? I would say it has more to do with the looks, speed, acceleration and handling. I actually think that the Taycan, personally, looks even more beautiful than the 911, though I'm slightly younger, and it's hands down the most beautiful in my lifetime

I do think the weight is a problem, it handles really well - even compared to petrol/diesel cars. But I think if they get the weight down, maybe by lighter battery pack, it'll handle better than pretty much any car full stop, I really hope they refine it enough so one day it'll be competitive with somebody like Lotus
What I mean is that the beholder needs to be in tune with driving an EV rather than an ICE since the actual driving experience is slightly different and if not in tune then will feel out of sync with experience. And on your second point I am absolutely sure that in just a few years from now with new chemistries in the battery packs the manufacturers will be able to get down to similar weight situations as ICEs today and with a hefty range as well but maybe not as comfortable as and ICE range. However in a few years more even this parameter will be similar to ICE and then you will have your dream. The EV sports cars of 10years from now will out perform in every parameter the then older generation ICEs of today. And nobody will be missing the old ICE experience...... At least in my vision of the coming 10 years.... :)
 

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The EV sports cars of 10years from now will out perform in every parameter the then older generation ICEs of today. And nobody will be missing the old ICE experience...... At least in my vision of the coming 10 years.... :)
People still love driving classic cars even though modern cars are objectively better. I don't think that's going to change.
 

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People still love driving classic cars even though modern cars are objectively better. I don't think that's going to change.
Yes......the car I miss the most is my first car....the 1966 VW Beetle with a 1300 cc engine. I had trouble getting to 95km as TOP SPEED up a hill on a highway as maximum speed! Looked at buying a replacement now and in the USA, the ones in good shape are more expensive than a 1924 Ford Model T, around $25k
 

TheSnape

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What I mean is that the beholder needs to be in tune with driving an EV rather than an ICE since the actual driving experience is slightly different and if not in tune then will feel out of sync with experience. And on your second point I am absolutely sure that in just a few years from now with new chemistries in the battery packs the manufacturers will be able to get down to similar weight situations as ICEs today and with a hefty range as well but maybe not as comfortable as and ICE range. However in a few years more even this parameter will be similar to ICE and then you will have your dream. The EV sports cars of 10years from now will out perform in every parameter the then older generation ICEs of today. And nobody will be missing the old ICE experience...... At least in my vision of the coming 10 years.... :)
Yeah, but it's a Porsche. Range and comfort should be the least of the priorities - if they're considered as priorities at all. But I just really hope they try and get the weight down as much as possible and invest in it as much as possible. If instead of investing in developing an electric Macan they instead just work on developing the most lightweight batteries possible, they hopefully could have it on production sooner - at least as a special edition of the Taycan if not mass market?
 

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Yeah, but it's a Porsche. Range and comfort should be the least of the priorities - if they're considered as priorities at all. But I just really hope they try and get the weight down as much as possible and invest in it as much as possible. If instead of investing in developing an electric Macan they instead just work on developing the most lightweight batteries possible, they hopefully could have it on production sooner - at least as a special edition of the Taycan if not mass market?
sorry not talking about comfort just comforting range me aiming longer than today so a good high speed range.... and yes that would be great but it’s a bit hit and miss for the time being. there are sooo many chemistries out there in different porto stages that it’s tough to understand whet will actually be the battery pack of tomorrow...... and yes they will have to be more energy dense and therefore lighter and probably more durable and can give more energy at any specific temperature and interval...... so with you on all comments just wanted to say that the comfort was more range rather than creature comforts.... :)
 

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Where are you getting this info from? On the Porsche USA website it says 3 models are all 54.4" high and all 3 have ride height adjustable air suspension.

[EDIT]
I prefer the Turbo vs the 4S for two reasons.
You don't use launch control every day so the 670hp overboost mode on the Turbo vs the 563hp on the 4S with battery upgrade isn't as big of a deal to me as is the normal everyday power mode of 616hp which is same as the Turbo S (yet the Turbo has the better CoD).
The 4S with battery upgrade is only 482hp in a 5000lb car.
The Turbos power difference between it's overboost and normal performance is only 54hp but in the 4S battery+ it's difference is 81hp. And if you compare the normal mode power difference between Turbo and 4S battery+ is 134hp!

Remember these are engines that we can't modify (at least easily or cheaply or anytime soon) like we do with an exhaust or tune etc on our ICE engine 911s etc. Getting more power from the factory is about the only way to get more power and the normal mode every day power available in the Turbo is the same as the Turbo S.

Maybe you could swap out the 300amp front inverter in the Turbo to the 600amp version from the Turbo S at a reasonable cost but since the 4S has a different smaller rear motor upgrade options would be very limited so expensive that you are probably better off getting a new Taycan instead of modding in the first place.

The second reason is that the power to weight ratio on the 4S variants under normal power mode are pretty bad. We are talking old 2006 987 Boxster S (291hp) or first gen 2009 Panamera 4S (400hp) power to weight performance ratios here.
Yes the instant electric torque and power across all RPMs makes the Taycan perform better than those ICE cars I mentioned above but it's still a lot of weight at over 10lbs per hp. The launch control 1/4 mile times used by Porsche are deceiving because they don't really show every day use ie non launch mode or overtaking and holding the throttle past the overboost 2.5 second timeout.
So I thought I had made up my mind and was going for the 4S but then this post from Jenner pointing out the discrepancy in power outside of overboost really has me thinking. It looks like Porsche has increased the overboost on the 4S to give it that quick 0-60 time but in general driving it might feel a LOT slower than the Turbo (speculation of course, as I’ve never driven it!).

Anyone else on the fence between the 4S and the Turbo? Can you help me decide?!
 

Singularity

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So I thought I had made up my mind and was going for the 4S but then this post from Jenner pointing out the discrepancy in power outside of overboost really has me thinking. It looks like Porsche has increased the overboost on the 4S to give it that quick 0-60 time but in general driving it might feel a LOT slower than the Turbo (speculation of course, as I’ve never driven it!).

Anyone else on the fence between the 4S and the Turbo? Can you help me decide?!
In the end it pretty much comes down to how much you value that extra speed. I thought about this quite a bit and for me it came down to the fact that the Turbo was over my initial budget and I didn't value the difference enough to justify throwing my budget to the trash bin. With my extras the 4S vs Turbo price difference was 37k€. I ordered the 4S (with the large battery).

The critical issue for my own decision was: is the 4S faster than the car I'm currently driving? The answer is yes. It has a 10% better hp/weight ratio (normal mode), beats the 0-60, 1/4 mile etc clearly. It has the advantage of the instant electric torque which my current car does not. And to be honest I feel that the ~330hp turbo diesel I'm driving is pretty fast already, I don't really need a much faster car than that. To me it was enough that the 4S isn't slower, and it certainly isn't. It is no Taycan Turbo for sure, but I'll save the 37k€ which I can find other uses for, most certainly. It also helped my decision that the 4S (with the large battery) has the best range of all the variants.

So, to summarize, no one can decide this for you. You just have to think it through and decide what you want to spend your money on.
 

charliemathilde

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In the end it pretty much comes down to how much you value that extra speed. I thought about this quite a bit and for me it came down to the fact that the Turbo was over my initial budget and I didn't value the difference enough to justify throwing my budget to the trash bin. With my extras the 4S vs Turbo price difference was 37k€. I ordered the 4S (with the large battery).

The critical issue for my own decision was: is the 4S faster than the car I'm currently driving? The answer is yes. It has a 10% better hp/weight ratio (normal mode), beats the 0-60, 1/4 mile etc clearly. It has the advantage of the instant electric torque which my current car does not. And to be honest I feel that the ~330hp turbo diesel I'm driving is pretty fast already, I don't really need a much faster car than that. To me it was enough that the 4S isn't slower, and it certainly isn't. It is no Taycan Turbo for sure, but I'll save the 37k€ which I can find other uses for, most certainly. It also helped my decision that the 4S (with the large battery) has the best range of all the variants.

So, to summarize, no one can decide this for you. You just have to think it through and decide what you want to spend your money on.
turn it to 11 ;-)
 

HK111

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Hello,

Anyone else on the fence between the 4S and the Turbo? Can you help me decide?!
As written above, that is a very individual decision. I was happy that the 4S was becoming available so quickly because I think the price/performance point is much better. That makes the decision easier, but both models would be affordable in my case. I had the suspicion that the Turbo S was overpriced to fish buyers "at the emotional high end". This may be a misguided perception, of course. It would be a good reason for Porsche to ship the Turbo S just in order to be more numbers-competitive to the Model S.

In most everyday driving situations, it will make no difference to me if I sit in the 4S or Turbo. If at all, the small range advantage of the 4S may be noticeable. The acceleration of the Turbo: Yeah, cool, but will I use it - ever? Maybe once or twice to try it out on a Sunday morning on an empty stretch of Autobahn and then - ouff- not again? I will never be on the track, either.

So I am happy with the 4S decision. No post-purchase remorse so far :).

Cheers.
 

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