Battery's range is a problem?

[riburn3]

I think my head exploded reading someone bought a $185k car and did absolutely no research. I think just typing out the post took more time than it would have to research the range. Part of me wonders if this is just a troll, especially after you say you don't recommend Porsche EV. It's like sure, lets take the guy who spent 6 figures on a vehicle without doing any research seriously.

The range on my 4S has probably been closer to 280 miles of nearly 100% freeway commute at 75-80 mph and I use range mode for it. Obviously when I'm cruising around town it goes into sport+, but even then my total range doesn't really feel it since it involves more regen.

Let's say 201 miles is the real range (it's not), is that really a huge issue? Does your day to day even come close to that? I drive 40 miles each way for work and still don't come close.

In terms of travel, whether the range is 200 miles or 350 miles, the frequency of stops you make doesn't change, and there are EA chargers scattered every 100 miles or so along just about every interstate in the country. You could stop at each one, give 10 minutes of juice, and hit the road to the next one. EV road trips do take a bit more time, but I went to Phoenix from El Paso recently in my 4S, I did it faster than I ever have in my Tesla, which has more rated range.

The only difference in day to day EV driving is they're more fun to drive and you never have to visit a gas station again.

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[evanevery]

Well said, I will just have to plan a lot going out of town.

See this.

 

[evanevery]

In terms of travel, whether the range is 200 miles or 350 miles, the frequency of stops you make doesn't change, and there are EA chargers scattered every 100 miles or so along just about every interstate in the country. You could stop at each one, give 10 minutes of juice, and hit the road to the next one.

IMHO: This is simply wrong. Range and density of chargers matters very much when planning your stops!

With 200 miles of range I'm never going further than 150 miles per charge. With 350 I might be traveling 300 between charges. That effectively cuts my charging stops in half and eliminates much of the associated logistics overhead (off-route driving, parking, terminal activation and failures)...

 

[RonMcg]

Many folks don't understand how convenient EV ownership really is! "Daily Use" is where the platform really shines!

you are so right!

 

[riburn3]

IMHO: This is simply wrong. Range and density of chargers matters very much when planning your stops!

It does for cars with ranges that allow you to skip charging stations, but that all depends on range when starting the trip. After the first stop or so, a lot of the game is determining if sitting longer to get more battery as the charging speed slows down is worth it, versus going to another closer charging station.

Having 3 EVs in my family all with different ranges and charging speeds, I constantly am playing around with Abetterrouteplanner. Even though the 4S has a lower rated range than my Model S or X, it still usually gets me to my destination faster because it charges much faster even if it's required to do so more frequently. I convoyed with a friend in his LR Model 3 in the trip above, and I still was able to keep pace despite the much larger battery and relatively fast charging speed his car offers.

Edit: this can all also be thrown off, especially for Tesla if your supercharger is full and charging speeds get cut in half. Hasn't happened often to me, but at least once on every road trip it occurs.

 

[Reg]

Well said, I will just have to plan a lot going out of town.

I don’t think it is plan a lot. It is just plan more than you would with an ICE (which is zero)

i just did a 400 mile round trip in one day, and gave some thought to where I would charge and considered what happens if one of the planned stops was completely unavailable.

 

[evanevery]

I don’t think it is plan a lot. It is just plan more than you would with an ICE (which is zero)

i just did a 400 mile round trip in one day, and gave some thought to where I would charge and considered what happens if one of the planned stops was completely unavailable.

I am a commercial pilot and I have planned many long domestic and international flights. Maybe its just me (or the lack of GOOD onboard software, or all the uncertainty about what one will REALLY encounter, or the PIA often involved in finding a method to successfully activate a particular charger) but planning an EV trip actually exceeds many flights I have had to plan.

Don't underestimate the planning requirements for a major EV road trip...

 

[Reg]

Don't underestimate the planning requirements for a major EV road trip...

probably depends a lot on the route, since my route (west coast) had a lot of charging options and alternatives.

 

[evanevery]

It does for cars with ranges that allow you to skip charging stations, but that all depends on range when starting the trip. After the first stop or so, a lot of the game is determining if sitting longer to get more battery as the charging speed slows down is worth it, versus going to another closer charging station.

Having 3 EVs in my family all with different ranges and charging speeds, I constantly am playing around with Abetterrouteplanner. Even though the 4S has a lower rated range than my Model S or X, it still usually gets me to my destination faster because it charges much faster even if it's required to do so more frequently. I convoyed with a friend in his LR Model 3 in the trip above, and I still was able to keep pace despite the much larger battery and relatively fast charging speed his car offers.

Edit: this can all also be thrown off, especially for Tesla if your supercharger is full and charging speeds get cut in half. Hasn't happened often to me, but at least once on every road trip it occurs.

I would ALWAYS start a trip at 100%. Why wouldn't you?

I would rather make one QUALITY 1 hr stop vs two 30 minute LESS USEFUL stops. I will have more options (lunch, dinner) available in a 60 minute stop vs a 30 minute stop (bathroom, drink, etc). The more you can stay distracted or occupied during your stop the less "taxing" it will be...

Most of the vehicle's charging is going to be at 100 - 150KW regardless of where you "start". I'm never pulling the charge all the way down to 10% or so as that would be a pretty marginal safety factor if a planned stop ends up being unusable.

Additionally, I usually charge a bit more than required - again for a safety factor. I typically charge to 85% regardless and bank the extra for my next arrival.

Yes, the battery will charge faster when mostly depleted but, given the relatively sparse density of chargers on the open road, I'm never going to pull it down that far in real life. The 100-150KW charging sweet spot covers most of the batteries capacity.

 

[riburn3]

I would ALWAYS start a trip at 100%. Why wouldn't you?

Well, it's not that great for the battery for one.

A lot also depends on the car and where you are going. I live in El Paso, and if I'm driving West, Deming, NM is the next closest supercharger or EA charger. In a Tesla, rolling in with 50+% battery autmatically reduces the charging speed. Even in my Porsche, charging speeds are much faster at lower levels of battery and I notice they sustain at a faster level if they started lower. Typically 90% is where I charge before I head out and even abetterrouteplanner recommends this. Length of trip doesn't change at all and all you've done is fully charge your battery when you didn't need to.

Maybe if you've never done an EV road trip topping off might give you better peace of mind, but in reality it is totally unnecessary unless you really need that range to hit the next charger or you're hoping to skip a charger, something the 3 and newer model S are really only capable of right now.

 

[evanevery]

Well, it's not that great for the battery for one.

A lot also depends on the car and where you are going. I live in El Paso, and if I'm driving West, Deming, NM is the next closest supercharger or EA charger. In a Tesla, rolling in with 50+% battery autmatically reduces the charging speed. Even in my Porsche, charging speeds are much faster at lower levels of battery and I notice they sustain at a faster level if they started lower. Typically 90% is where I charge before I head out and even abetterrouteplanner recommends this. Length of trip doesn't change at all and all you've done is fully charge your battery when you didn't need to.

Maybe if you've never done an EV road trip topping off might give you better peace of mind, but in reality it is totally unnecessary unless you really need that range to hit the next charger or you're hoping to skip a charger, something the 3 and newer model S are really only capable of right now.

Thats not true either... Its perfectly fine to charge to 100% in advance of a long trip. That's why the capacity is there in the first place!

Porsche recommends daily charging to 85% with the full capacity (100%) recommended when the additional charge will be pulled down within 24 hrs.

I have done a road trip with the Taycan. Specifically to test and evaluate the car and the associated software used to accomplish this. ...and I've also had TWO out of SEVEN planned stations completely unusable (None of the chargers at either station could be used at all). Notes are here.

Additionally, "Skipping a charger" has absolutely NOTHING to do with what particular EV you are driving. It is entirely dependent on how you have planned your trip, the density of chargers in the area you are travelling, and the charge level you left your last charger with. I "skipped a charger" with my TurboS when the entire station wasn't working and I had to travel another 60 miles further down the road to an unplanned charger. I could do this SPECIFICALLY because I had "overcharged" at the last station I visited...

 

[riburn3]

Porsche recommends daily charging to 85% with the full capacity (100%) recommended when the additional charge will be pulled down within 24 hrs.

It's not a big deal either way since I don't believe Porsche uses the entire battery on a 100% charge anyway. It still doesn't really save time though.

You're right about the dumpster fire of chargers available for EA and the Taycan on longer road trips. I've had my Model S since 2013 and coast to coast road tripped it twice without a single issue, in addition to dozens of 500ish mile trips. Tesla requires no significant planning and the only setbacks come when someone shares your charger with you.

I've taken 3 West Texas to California or Phoenix trips in my Taycan and one trip to Florida, and although all those have gone okay, the charging network can be hit or miss with stalls down or not charging quickly. In these instances I have backup plans and try and stop in areas with destination chargers as a backup. In all cases, I never needed to top up to 100% and never came close to running out of battery but I did require an unexpected overnight near Lake Charles, LA because the EA chargers were down. Thankfully the Golden Nugget there was more than willing to reward me for my vehicle misfortune.

 

[RonMcg]

I think my head exploded reading someone bought a $185k car and did absolutely no research. I think just typing out the post took more time than it would have to research the range. Part of me wonders if this is just a troll, especially after you say you don't recommend Porsche EV. It's like sure, lets take the guy who spent 6 figures on a vehicle without doing any research seriously.

The range on my 4S has probably been closer to 280 miles of nearly 100% freeway commute at 75-80 mph and I use range mode for it. Obviously when I'm cruising around town it goes into sport+, but even then my total range doesn't really feel it since it involves more regen.

Let's say 201 miles is the real range (it's not), is that really a huge issue? Does your day to day even come close to that? I drive 40 miles each way for work and still don't come close.

In terms of travel, whether the range is 200 miles or 350 miles, the frequency of stops you make doesn't change, and there are EA chargers scattered every 100 miles or so along just about every interstate in the country. You could stop at each one, give 10 minutes of juice, and hit the road to the next one. EV road trips do take a bit more time, but I went to Phoenix from El Paso recently in my 4S, I did it faster than I ever have in my Tesla, which has more rated range.

The only difference in day to day EV driving is they're more fun to drive and you never have to visit a gas station again.

I think my head exploded reading someone bought a $185k car and did absolutely no research. I think just typing out the post took more time than it would have to research the range. Part of me wonders if this is just a troll, especially after you say you don't recommend Porsche EV. It's like sure, lets take the guy who spent 6 figures on a vehicle without doing any research seriously.

The range on my 4S has probably been closer to 280 miles of nearly 100% freeway commute at 75-80 mph and I use range mode for it. Obviously when I'm cruising around town it goes into sport+, but even then my total range doesn't really feel it since it involves more regen.

Let's say 201 miles is the real range (it's not), is that really a huge issue? Does your day to day even come close to that? I drive 40 miles each way for work and still don't come close.

In terms of travel, whether the range is 200 miles or 350 miles, the frequency of stops you make doesn't change, and there are EA chargers scattered every 100 miles or so along just about every interstate in the country. You could stop at each one, give 10 minutes of juice, and hit the road to the next one. EV road trips do take a bit more time, but I went to Phoenix from El Paso recently in my 4S, I did it faster than I ever have in my Tesla, which has more rated range.

The only difference in day to day EV driving is they're more fun to drive and you never have to visit a gas station again.

I think my head exploded reading someone bought a $185k car and did absolutely no research. I think just typing out the post took more time than it would have to research the range. Part of me wonders if this is just a troll, especially after you say you don't recommend Porsche EV. It's like sure, lets take the guy who spent 6 figures on a vehicle without doing any research seriously.

The range on my 4S has probably been closer to 280 miles of nearly 100% freeway commute at 75-80 mph and I use range mode for it. Obviously when I'm cruising around town it goes into sport+, but even then my total range doesn't really feel it since it involves more regen.

Let's say 201 miles is the real range (it's not), is that really a huge issue? Does your day to day even come close to that? I drive 40 miles each way for work and still don't come close.

In terms of travel, whether the range is 200 miles or 350 miles, the frequency of stops you make doesn't change, and there are EA chargers scattered every 100 miles or so along just about every interstate in the country. You could stop at each one, give 10 minutes of juice, and hit the road to the next one. EV road trips do take a bit more time, but I went to Phoenix from El Paso recently in my 4S, I did it faster than I ever have in my Tesla, which has more rated range.

The only difference in day to day EV driving is they're more fun to drive and you never have to visit a gas station again.

Well, Riburn3, I am not sure what a TROLL actually is, you are referring to, but I am a very impulsive person. I have owned Porches for the past 50 years and other high end cars in my life. You did give me some good information and I appreciate that. If you read any of my responses to others, I accept it is what it is to drive an EV. Lesson learned, I would recommend the Taycan, but only if the person knows what they are getting into if it is their first, like me.

 

[riburn3]

Well, Riburn3, I am not sure what a TROLL actually is, you are referring to, but I am a very impulsive person. I have owned Porches for the past 50 years and other high end cars in my life. You did give me some good information and I appreciate that. If you read any of my responses to others, I accept it is what it is to drive an EV. Lesson learned, I would recommend the Taycan, but only if the person knows what they are getting into if it is their first, like me.

Yup, that's sound advice. Don't spend any amount of money, let alone 6 figures on an EV vehicle unless you fully understand what you are jumping into. It doesn't matter how seasoned anyone is with vehicles, specifically ICE vehicles when it comes to owning an EV. Even coming from a Tesla for 7 years and now owning a 4S was still a learning experience.

 

[evanevery]

In these instances I have backup plans and try and stop in areas with destination chargers as a backup.

No way I'm using Tesla Destination Chargers as my "Plan B". My "Plan B" is always going to be a EA charger further down the road if at all possible. Campground Outlets and Tesla Destination Chargers might be "Plan C" and then 120V charging a "Plan D". ...and staying overnight is pretty far down on my list of "Plans".

Yup, that's sound advice. Don't spend any amount of money, let alone 6 figures on an EV vehicle unless you fully understand what you are jumping into. It doesn't matter how seasoned anyone is with vehicles, specifically ICE vehicles when it comes to owning an EV. Even coming from a Tesla for 7 years and now owning a 4S was still a learning experience.

...and EV ownership is actually quite convenient and easy unless:

1. You don't/can't have access to a level 2 charger at home or at work (for daily charging)

- or -

2. Your "typical daily driving requirements" are more than 50% of the range of the vehicle. (50% allows for additions to a "typical" schedule)

-or-

3. You plan on doing Road trips.

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