BOSE Delays

[f1eng]

the perceived benefit and differentiation derived.

The only technically valid explanation for it is the placebo effect which, conveniently for the snake-oil salesmen, is stronger the more expensive something is.

I have done a lot of experiments on what does make a difference and what doesn't, here isn't the place to go into detail but I could have spent far less than I have over the years if I had known during my "highest income, lowest spare time" years what I know now

All the experiments I did confirmed the laws of physics were not being broken...

Sponsored

 

[WuffvonTrips]

The only technically valid explanation for it is the placebo effect which, conveniently for the snake-oil salesmen, is stronger the more expensive something is.

In the 80's there was an audiophile "personality"/guru selling outrageously expensive strips of electrostatically charged tape to be affixed to curtains and furniture, to which some reviewers attributed significant improvements to the soundstage etc.
On an unrelated note- seeing the kit in your photo, the fabulous retro-futuristic look alone would partly justify the cost, particularly when it dominates its environment (I'm still sad about having had to store my studio reference speakers ever since family life took over).

 

[f1eng]

In the 80's there was an audiophile "personality"/guru selling outrageously expensive strips of electrostatically charged tape to be affixed to curtains and furniture, to which some reviewers attributed significant improvements to the soundstage etc.
On an unrelated note- seeing the kit in your photo, the fabulous retro-futuristic look alone would partly justify the cost, particularly when it dominates its environment (I'm still sad about having had to store my studio reference speakers ever since family life took over).

Yes. Peter Belt.
His widow was still selling something called "electret cream" or something last time I looked


I built a dedicated room for music a 20 odd years ago.

Since IME the biggest influence on SQ is the speaker, its location relative to room boundaries, listener position and furnishing location and absorbtion/reflection it became obvious domestic harmony was not going to be possible otherwise.
That solved the problem of potential child damage too.

Our 4 children are all in their 40s now.

 

[W1NGE]

The only technically valid explanation for it is the placebo effect which, conveniently for the snake-oil salesmen, is stronger the more expensive something is.

I have done a lot of experiments on what does make a difference and what doesn't, here isn't the place to go into detail but I could have spent far less than I have over the years if I had known during my "highest income, lowest spare time" years what I know now

All the experiments I did confirmed the laws of physics were not being broken...

Placebo indeed - plus we collectively need to reign the conversation in on this thread as interesting as it is before we get a row from the Moderator.

 

[TaycanHero]

I tried driving with headphones as an impecunious audiophile very many years ago but it made me realise how much I relied on my ears when driving, listening to the car and the environment.
I felt very disorientated and have not done it since. It felt dangerous.

Mind you I have Asperger's so I don't like noisy distraction, listening to music is a major leisure activity for me, but never in the background.

Agree with this. I don't even like walking down the safest of streets with earphones on - I like to be aware of my environment.

Driving and it would be dangerous.

 

[TaycanHero]

Below is a $500 volume knob, I remember seeing a $5,000 version too, but did not find it in a quick google search (must be hidden on some audiophile forums, where you can only see the $5K knob if you had more than x posts on the forum - for suckers pros only). Don't forget the premium, gold-plated, magic dusted cables for digital transmission (like Ethernet) too - 1's and 0's sent through those cables sounds so much batter than cheap copper 1's and 0's.

For the most part what you mention is marketing BS and quite hilariously so as well.

However, a high quality audio cable that uses thicker gauge copper - and strands of silver (slightly brightens the sound) and copper - does make a noticeable difference to quality and soundstage.

I have audio cables for my monitors that cost £200, which is on the upper end of cost - and that is a Chinese brand, so you would not expect a high premium - and they do sound better than cheaper/stock cables because of their construction and the quality of materials used.

 

[f1eng]

For the most part what you mention is marketing BS and quite hilariously so as well.

However, a high quality audio cable that uses thicker gauge copper - and strands of silver (slightly brightens the sound) and copper - does make a noticeable difference to quality and soundstage.

I have audio cables for my monitors that cost £200, which is on the upper end of cost - and that is a Chinese brand, so you would not expect a high premium - and they do sound better than cheaper/stock cables because of their construction and the quality of materials used.

Sorry, but what you mention here is 99.9% sure to be placebo, particularly the brighter sound due to silver content.

I had expensive cables but when I did a level matched test with my daughter changing cables so I didn’t know which was which they all sounded the same - from £30 to £12,000 per set.

A friend had a similar experience. He was absolutely totally convinced he got a big improvement from silver (Audio Note iirc) speaker cables, so much so he let his nephew use them in a University evaluation measuring and auditioning a range of cables and went along to hear the explanation why his cables were so much better.
To his amazement and horror he couldn’t hear any difference himself in properly controlled conditions and sold them.

As long as a cable has enough cross section to carry the current and reasonable levels of capacitance and inductance there is no mechanism by which it could feasibly sound different, other than placebo. But placebo does work and it really would sound different to anybody sure it would.

 

[TaycanHero]

Sorry, but what you mention here is 99.9% sure to be placebo, particularly the brighter sound due to silver content.

I had expensive cables but when I did a level matched test with my daughter changing cables so I didn’t know which was which they all sounded the same - from £30 to £12,000 per set.

A friend had a similar experience. He was absolutely totally convinced he got a big improvement from silver (Audio Note iirc) speaker cables, so much so he let his nephew use them in a University evaluation measuring and auditioning a range of cables and went along to hear the explanation why his cables were so much better.
To his amazement and horror he couldn’t hear any difference himself in properly controlled conditions and sold them.

As long as a cable has enough cross section to carry the current and reasonable levels of capacitance and inductance there is no mechanism by which it could feasibly sound different, other than placebo. But placebo does work and it really would sound different to anybody sure it would.

You are probably correct and I do find the psychology of it quite interesting. Where you have spent X on something that can only be experienced by sight or sound, you convince yourself that it really is better than something with a perceived lower value.

The difference in audio quality between a cable costing £10/m vs £50/m is likely slim - then anything beyond that price is a total waste.

That said, I will be keeping my cables as I also like the practicality and aesthetics!

 

[Fish Fingers]

Placebo indeed - plus we collectively need to reign the conversation in on this thread as interesting as it is before we get a row from the Moderator.

*********,
Update.
New thread now set up....
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/audio-hi-fi-thread.12870/

*********
Maybe set up a new thread for audio / hi-fi in the Chat Lounge?

It's not used much on this forum, whereas on some of my favourite other forums from yesteryear it had the highest number of posts by some margin.

 

[tigerbalm]

Don't forget the premium, gold-plated, magic dusted cables for digital transmission (like Ethernet) too - 1's and 0's sent through those cables sounds so much batter than cheap copper 1's and 0's.

Are you saying you're not planning to charge your Taycan with premium electricity?

 

[ayoussef]

I’m in the US and just confirmed with my dealer that my build will still have Bose….my freeze date was only a week ago 9/23. I don’t know if I should believe him, how is that possible?

 

[NuJerzPorsche]

I’m in the US and just confirmed with my dealer that my build will still have Bose….my freeze date was only a week ago 9/23. I don’t know if I should believe him, how is that possible?

I am sure there’s going to be some that slip through the cracks.

 

[Midlifecrisis]

Where you have spent X on something that can only be experienced by sight or sound, you convince yourself that it really is better than something with a perceived lower value.

I don’t suppose this could also apply to owning a Porsche could it? Surely not!

 

[whitex]

I seem to remember there was an interesting discussion on R4's More or Less recently on this topic where apparently scientific tests were conducted into why people spend so much on 'hi-fi' and the perceived benefit and differentiation derived. I wish I could remember which one it was but it made some sense to me at the time highlighting that in such situations folk convince themselves that their (expensive) system sounds better than others as they actively listen for differences which at the end of the day may not be 'better' but different.

No doubt there was some science and math applied which if memory serves basically confirmed that the improvements heard were typically in one's mind rather than a measurable difference or at best no better.

I may have recollected this incorrectly but worth a listen should you come across it (but I'm guessing you probably heard it live at the time).

Human psychology and behavior is rather fascinating. We have so many biases, imperfect memory, irrational emotions, etc. See the common 50 biases humans have below. Note that placebo effect is one of them. The benefit of being aware of the biases we all have is that we can make conscious decisions to avoid and/or compensate for them with our critical thinking skills.

 

[W1NGE]

Human psychology and behavior is rather fascinating. We have so many biases, imperfect memory, irrational emotions, etc. See the common 50 biases humans have below. Note that placebo effect is one of them. The benefit of being aware of the biases we all have is that we can make conscious decisions to avoid and/or compensate for them with our critical thinking skills.

This forum is truly great and always an education.

Many thx.