break in, run in, gentle early miles/Kms?

[Winterfell]

I was asking because I was curious if there were any secondary effects you were thinking of such as motors heating up less due to lower rotational speed and therefore wasting less energy (assuming motor heat cannot be recycled to heat the battery, which often it can be) - that would be a very small effect. Or perhaps if you had some Taycan motors efficiency graphs (see last paragraph how gears could help if motor has high efficiency variation vs rpm), which I was not aware of.

Your explanation is based on a common fallacy that gears somehow increase power (energy/time). It does not (google it, plenty of explanations on the internet). Moving a the same car the same distance at the same speed consumes the same amount power (and therefore energy, since the time would the the same too), regardless of a gear you are in. Gears can increase torque at the cost of speed, however the total energy consumed is identical. This means the amount of power drawn from the battery is identical to move the same car at the same speed for the same distance (and time, since speed is the same).

If you take your argument to the extreme, simply adding more gears would make EV's more and more efficient, but it doesn't (notice that Teslas are more efficient than Porsche for example). Where gears can help save energy is if the motor is more efficient at producing power at a particular RPM. This is a lot more applicable for ICE engines, as they are already very inefficient (~80% of energy from fossil fuels turns into heat, only ~20% is used for driving). For for some rpm's ICE motors are just very inefficient (create a lot more heat percentage wise, or have incomplete combustion causing it to be wasteful) - this is where the old school "overdrive" for highway speeds came about. For electric motors this is not the case, as they are way more efficient to start with.

As for why you heat up more on a bicycle when in high gear, it's not because you are producing more energy, you are just making more power in shorter time. Think of another analogy, what if you had a case of 24 1L bottles of water and you had to lift from the floor onto a shelf. What would use more energy, lifting the whole case at once or one bottle at the time? The answer is, pretty much the same energy, with one bottle at a time using slightly more because you have to lift your arm weight and air resistance adds a little, meaning work to lift arms and fight air resistance will be 24x when you do one bottle at a time (25x if you lift the empty case at the end).

To bad you got my analogy with the bike wrong. High gear reduce heat in head.

Low gear=
High torque, high acceleration, high energy consumption

High gear=
Lower torque, higher speed, lower energy consumption, lower torque

Hence, you have at high speeds lower energy consumption in a higher gear compared to a lower gear.

I agree to disagree

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[whitex]

Thank you for your response. I did some research and it is all to the contrary what you have stated.

I understand you are not a fan of Porsche Taycans Launch Control and you have to stand to activate it, which is the hole purpose. More so, Tesla has the exact same feature, which is called Launch Mode, since 2015, hm. The main difference, you can only use it, when the battery pack has the specified temperature, which can take up to one hour depending on ambient temperature. Porsche is available when Sport modes are selected, but you need the sport chrono package of course, classic Porsche.

I've been driving Model S'es for a decade now. Ludicrous is available all the time. What you are referring to is battery pre-heat, which at one point was renamed to Ludicrous+. Hotter battery can deliver more power. Heating the battery can take many minutes (over an hour during winter) to complete, and all it is is Ludicrous with battery target temperature raised. Taycan Sport+ also raises the battery target (in addition to setting other parameters), and it also will not heat up the battery between red and green lights. The difference is, Taycan bundles more settings under drive mode, in a Tesla they are separate settings (like acceleration mapping, steering/suspension, etc). Teslas have a launch mode, but unlike Taycan, the max power the motors can deliver is not only available in launch mode, it can be unleashed at any time by mashing the go pedal. Of course what the max power is depends on other factors, like the aforementioned battery temperature, and SoC, and battery age, and stability control limits (which considers a bunch of parameters), but that is true for both Teslas and Taycans.

Tesla chill mode has no flooring possibility, chill is chill and has moderate acceleration.

I've never driven in Chill Mode, so cannot tell you first hand account, but have read that with the pedal all the way to the floor, Chill doesn't matter - it's considered an emergency maneuver and full power is unleashed.

The max torque is clearly only available in the get go and after a certain speed (50 mph maybe) it tapers off. Much slower then an ICE of course, but noticeable. Even Tesla mentions it on the homepage that with the Plaid/Ludicrous mode you will notice a lower response at higher speeds.

Yep, that's just physics. Max torque of electric motor is at 0 rpm. Constant power means torque goes down as speed goes up.

Therefore the max torque is only available at launch for both, Tesla and Porsche.

The difference is Tesla does not require Launch Mode to achieve that max torque. Taycan does.

Tesla in a similar manner, changes the mode automatically. For the Tesla X, when Ludicrous+ is activated, it will either deactivate when you return to your car or on longer journeys after 3 hours.

Ludicrous is activate permanently. Ludicrous+ is per use, but the only difference is the battery target is set higher. Original Ludicrous (which I've owned) only had Sport and Ludicrous, then there was a way to enable battery pre-heat when in Ludicrous mode. Later Tesla renamed it to Ludicrous+ instead of preheat. I set my Model S in Ludicrous when I bought it, sold it almost 8 years later with it still set to Ludicrous mode.

Tesla mentioned clearly on their homepage that Insane+/Ludicrous+ should not be used daily, rather occasionally as it will have a significant impact on wear and tear and the longevity of the motor and battery.

Hotter battery can deliver more power, but not as great for longevity. Also, generally using more power adds wear on all drivetrain parts, electric or mechanical. Taycan does not advise against using Sport Plus all the time, so perhaps even driving around with a hot battery is still within limits of their warranty (to be fair, Tesla never voided any warranties for using Ludicrous+).

Tesla mentioned clearly on their homepage that Insane+/Ludicrous+ should not be used daily, rather occasionally as it will have a significant impact on wear and tear and the longevity of the motor and battery. In essence, when you constantly use it, you might loos your warranty, as the warranty says, covered under normal use. The same warning was mentioned for heavy use of Launch Mode, again, the same as Porsche Launch Control. Some Tesla users have reported that after a certain use of Launch Mode, it deactivates, and this is pure speculation and no evidence to back it up. It is user experience.

Being part of the Tesla community for a decade, I have yet to hear a single person mention Tesla voiding their warranty for using Ludicrous+ (or the old battery pre-heat mode). That said, there was an issue with 1st generation P90D's where Tesla had a software counter counting number of LM uses, after which they would limit the car's max power (still let you activate LM, but the power was lower). After this was found out, they removed said limit from their software.

This is all based on facts from Tesla, if you want to rebuttal, you are a true Tesla Fan and I wonder why you drive a Porsche Taycan?

I've owned 4 Model S'es in the last 10 years (still have one). I got to know them very well (I've taken them apart, reverse engineered their electronics). I decided for now the Taycan is a better car for me overall. It doesn't mean I don't think Taycan has deficiencies. I was never a Tesla fanboy, nor will ever be a Porsche fanboy. I'm an equal opportunist. Each time I want to switch cars, I look at what is available and make a decision. I've found plenty of areas where Tesla could use improvement, finding Taycan deficiencies now that I own one.

 

[whitex]

To bad you got my analogy with the bike wrong. High gear reduce heat in head.

Low gear=
High torque, high acceleration, high energy consumption

High gear=
Lower torque, higher speed, lower energy consumption, lower torque

Hence, you have at high speeds lower energy consumption in a higher gear compared to a lower gear.

I agree to disagree

Maybe you should patent the idea to make all EV's so much more efficient by using less energy at the same speed with just a gear box - perhaps even a CVT transmission so that the gear is always optimal.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Jhenson29]

I have learned that all EVs incl Tesla have technically two gears. The front and rear motor have different ratios for efficiency in a dual motor config. Porsche Taycan in this case would have three gears, in a similar way as it is being used in the Formula E sport for efficiency. Can really all manufacturers be wrong if a gearbox makes no sense?

That’s not what’s meant by “two gears”. When someone talks about how many “gears”, it’s referring to changeable gearings of the same drive system. Not a count of gearboxes across all drive systems in a single process. So, Tesla has one gear. Taycan has 2. That’s not a point for debate.

I recommend reading the below post by a very smart member regarding the Taycan gearbox for more information.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/gearbox-totally-unnecessary.11771/#post-172269

I’ll also just separately point out that it’s actually not required to have a gearbox at all. A higher pole count and larger diameter motor like a ring motor is made for direct couple and can act similarly to a lower pole motor with a gearbox. I’m not saying that’s the right motor for a car. Just pointing it out.

 

[bn8959]

I don’t mind the idea of some power being locked behind LC. If max output varies on a lot of factors, mainly battery temperature, I’d prefer consistency when driving, so when the pedal is mashed acceleration is as expected, not slower because it’s cold or faster because it’s hot.

 

[Novemberwhisky]

Would it be fair to say, as the OP, there’s some serious thread creep here.

 

[Jhenson29]

Would it be fair to say, as the OP, there’s some serious thread creep here.

Thread subjects are more often than not just suggestions on this forum.

 

[RMB]

This is in your "Good to know-owner's manual" in your glove box. Way up high in that cavity where you can barely get at it.

 

[Novemberwhisky]

Thanks RMB

 

[whitex]

This is in your "Good to know-owner's manual" in your glove box. Way up high in that cavity where you can barely get at it.

Yep, I read the "Running in the vehicle" too, so decided to take the long way home from the dealer to get it out of the way - as per manual: long trip, no motorsports events. Just in case, I made it 3,500 miles (5,600 km) long to be sure,

 

[Ant76]

no super charging for the first 5,000 km apparently I was told by my dealer yesterday. They said to limit to 50kwh

 

[Hirschaj]

no super charging for the first 5,000 km apparently I was told by my dealer yesterday. They said to limit to 50kwh

that’s a load of They use their own DCFC and charge it to 100% before delivering it to you. Fast charge as much as you need to right from the start.

 

[RMB]

Porsche experience Center LA told me to load up close to 100% on DC traveling 1650 Mi home and then to 80% On My Level 2 in the garage for local driving.

 

[daveo4EV]

no super charging for the first 5,000 km apparently I was told by my dealer yesterday. They said to limit to 50kwh

100% dealer BS - they are making crap up - and have no idea what they are talking about.

charge at less than 200 kW and don't top it off to 100%…you'll be fine.

 

[whitex]

no super charging for the first 5,000 km apparently I was told by my dealer yesterday. They said to limit to 50kwh

Did you ask them to back it up with some official recommendation from Porsche? Sounds totally made up.

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