Lectron NACS to CCS1 adapter

[gtm]

Not to be too simplistic about it, but I think capitalistism and the role of competition is what will actually make this situation improve. If EA has/had a stranglehold on the CCS market then why bother to focus on customer experience?

I think we'll all look back on this in 5 years as a non-issue, and yet we'll wonder why it took so long to get a solid charging infrastructure in place.

I think you are already seeing capitalism gaining traction. Travel centers and gas station/convenience stores (Flying J, Pilot, Buc-ee's, Circle K,...) are rolling out charging. EV's charge for 20 minutes or more giving the stores more time to sell to a captive audience. Selling electrons can be profitable (gross profit of $0.30/kWh roughly), and the charging equipment is generally under surveillance 24/7 minimizing vandalism. These companies have determined that offering EV charging makes economic sense as least on major highway travel routes. Inner city charging will probably look different but if there is a market someone will find a solution. EA will either improve or fade away into irrelevance.

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[Jonathan S.]

^ Agreed on the above sentiments!

And alas the delay in this development is most likely attributable to well-intentioned but unfortunately unsuccessful gov’t intervention.
(And this is coming from someone who thinks a reasonable argument could be made for gov’t subsidies to help DCFC infrastructure.)

Imagine you’re an entrepreneurial type back in 2016.
Tesla has unveiled the Model 3, and is making great progress on building out its V2 Superchargers.
But that network has no capability of being accessible EVs with the recently established CCS1 standard. Hmm…

So you start lining up investors and – whoops, one of the biggest legacy automakers in the world is now legally required to spend $2b on a CCS1 charging network and related initiatives.
Who would want to build out a comprehensive national network to compete with a company that is now legally required to spend $2b to compete with you?
(Answer of course = nobody!)

Now fast forward five years to 2021.
That $2b is still in the process of being spent, but the resulting network sure is flawed.
And far more CCS1 vehicles are being built.
Plus all those Tesla vehicles can now also charge via CCS1.

So you start gearing up again and – whoops, Congress approves $7.5b for CCS1 charging stations, to be administered by state DOTs.
Who would want to build out a comprehensive national network instead of getting in line to try to win free money?
(Answer of course = nobody!)

Now fast forward three years to … now.
That $7.5b has so far resulted in 69 CCS1 ports. (No, not even 69 stations, just 69 ports.)
Plus that $2b network sure still is flawed (and the $2b will be depleted by the end of 2026, with no legal obligation to keep spending beyond that).
And far more CCS1 vehicles are on the roads, along with CCS1-compatible Teslas.
So now we’re finally starting to see some better efforts.

Many states programs have also backfired.
For example, Vermont allocated funding in 2019 and 2020 to build out a network of 17 two-charger stations (most of which are just 50kW), which is still in progress now in 2024 (and many of the station that already became operational within the past year are already totally broken).
Who would want to build charging stations with more than two chargers per station in Vermont instead of getting in line to try to win free money?
(Answer of course = exactly nobody besides Tesla.)

Meanwhile, our dutiful PlugShare reporter Christopher will conclude his daily tally for broken charger #2 at Day #60 for the West Lebanon NH EA station since it’s going off-line the following day to replace all the chargers.
The punchline of sorts is that EA refers to the existing chargers there as “legacy equipment” but the entire station is only two years old!
I wonder how many of EA’s chargers will be junked by the time the consent decree expires at the end of 2026?

 

[Jonathan S.]

And now Ford is telling its drivers to get the Lectron adapter:
https://evchargingstations.com/char...to-ccs1-adapter-shortage-with-lectron-vortex/
... except that Ford claims something is different about the locking mechanism on the Ford-branded Lectron adapter:





... perhaps beyond just the addition of the Ford logo!

Either way, if you do want to buy either a Lectron or A2Z adapter in anticipation of our eventual access, that STATEOFCHARGE discount code for 15% off works for either of them.

 

[thecoloradokid]

Many states programs have also backfired.
For example, Vermont allocated funding in 2019 and 2020 to build out a network of 17 two-charger stations (most of which are just 50kW), which is still in progress now in 2024 (and many of the station that already became operational within the past year are already totally broken).
Who would want to build charging stations with more than two chargers per station in Vermont instead of getting in line to try to win free money?
(Answer of course = exactly nobody besides Tesla.)

You may want to broaden your sample size before basing your judgment on one single solitary state. You obviously don't have a nationwide perspective on what states have or have not done in regards to rolling out state funded and operated EV charging infrastructure, nor the reliability of said chargers.

The states of Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, and Utah have all managed their state EV chargering infrastructure just fine. A little delayed with the roll out, but functional and in remote places you would expect them to be. I have used chargers paid for by all four of these states that allow me to access remote parts of all four states without issues. State of Utah chargers in Bluff, UT so I can get to Monument Valley? Yup, done that. Using the recently installed EA chargers in Moab, UT paid for by the State of Utah before heading into Arches? Yup, done that. EA chargers paid for by the State of Utah in Vernal, UT so I can get up to the Flaming Gorge? Yup, done that. State of New Mexico chargers paid for by the State but rolled out by Francis Energy in Elephant Butte, NM to bridge the gap from Albuquerque to El Paso? Yup, done that. State of New Mexico chargers paid for by the State but rolled out by Francis Energy in Alamogordo, NM so I can get to White Sands? Yup, done that. State of Colorado chargers in Durango, CO so I can ride the Durango - Silverton train or go to Mesa Verde? Yup, done that. Chargers in eastern Arizona to take short cuts or the back way into PHX while coming west on I-40? Yup, done that.

Do me a favor, look on Plugshare and see how many chargers the State of Utah paid EA to install in Moab or in Vernal, UT? Or the State of Colorado paid Chargepoint to put in Durango, CO or Burlington, CO?

If you are going to pretend to be an authority on all things charging, at least know what you are talking about because your act is getting beyond stale.

 

[Jonathan S.]

"If you are going to pretend to be an authority on all things charging, at least know what you are talking about because your act is getting beyond stale."
Why bother innovating my act when it delivers such entertaining personal insults from you?

Seriously though, where have I claimed to be an authority on all things charging?
The dismal non-proprietary DCFC status in northern New England! Yes, self-appointed expert reporting for duty!
Many other parts of New England, yes sir!

Economic analysis of the market for non-proprietary DCFC? Conceptually so, yes, although I lack the detailed access to the data that I would usually apply in my real work.
(Note that given how that work is often adversarial in nature, in the litigation context, if I think someone is wrong, I use data and analysis to try to show that my opponent is wrong, instead of just resorting to personal insults.)

And I stand by my main thesis that EA and NEVI have delayed the expansion of non-subsidized non-proprietary DCFC networks.

I also stand by my prior statement that (which is the only part of my post that you directly criticized, despite the rather broad personal insult):
"Many states programs have also backfired."
(Although I probably should have added an apostrophe after "states"?)
I gave one example of miserable failure.
You gave some examples of successes -- I am sincerely glad to hear that!
(Both as an EV driver and as an economist who places great faith in market forces yet also sees a potential role for gov't intervention in this kind of market.)
However, those successes still leave room for "many" other states to have messed it up.

And here's another state success story:
https://evolveny.nypa.gov/
I have not been back to my childhood home state (and currently neighboring state) in a couple years, but when I started planning some possible trips there last year ... wait, huh, what's going on, the coverage looks great, as does the reliability!

Punchline of sorts: many of those successful stations are built by EA, but ... apparently repairs are performed via some different arrangement, and you even call a different phone number for support. (The free EA plans also don't work at those stations.)
Of course, EA support staff and repair crews are just contractors, not EA employees.
So perhaps this shows how NYS is more willing to put the money into support staff and repair crews than is EA, which can compensate for what be the inherent unreliability of some of the contactor equipment installed by EA?

 

[thecoloradokid]

"If you are going to pretend to be an authority on all things charging, at least know what you are talking about because your act is getting beyond stale."
Why bother innovating my act when it delivers such entertaining personal insults from you?

Seriously though, where have I claimed to be an authority on all things charging?
The dismal non-proprietary DCFC status in northern New England! Yes, self-appointed expert reporting for duty!
Many other parts of New England, yes sir!

Economic analysis of the market for non-proprietary DCFC? Conceptually so, yes, although I lack the detailed access to the data that I would usually apply in my real work.
(Note that given how that work is often adversarial in nature, in the litigation context, if I think someone is wrong, I use data and analysis to try to show that my opponent is wrong, instead of just resorting to personal insults.)

And I stand by my main thesis that EA and NEVI have delayed the expansion of non-subsidized non-proprietary DCFC networks.

I also stand by my prior statement that (which is the only part of my post that you directly criticized, despite the rather broad personal insult):
"Many states programs have also backfired."
(Although I probably should have added an apostrophe after "states"?)
I gave one example of miserable failure.
You gave some examples of successes -- I am sincerely glad to hear that!
(Both as an EV driver and as an economist who places great faith in market forces yet also sees a potential role for gov't intervention in this kind of market.)
However, those successes still leave room for "many" other states to have messed it up.

And here's another state success story:
https://evolveny.nypa.gov/
I have not been back to my childhood home state (and currently neighboring state) in a couple years, but when I started planning some possible trips there last year ... wait, huh, what's going on, the coverage looks great, as does the reliability!

Punchline of sorts: many of those successful stations are built by EA, but ... apparently repairs are performed via some different arrangement, and you even call a different phone number for support. (The free EA plans also don't work at those stations.)
Of course, EA support staff and repair crews are just contractors, not EA employees.
So perhaps this shows how NYS is more willing to put the money into support staff and repair crews than is EA, which can compensate for what be the inherent unreliability of some of the contactor equipment installed by EA?

Since when does sharing with someone that their "act is getting beyond stale" constitute a personal insult? Think about it, the majority of your posts complain about the state of our charging infrastructure in the US. And that is cool, but don't be so sensitive when someone points out that many of us are logging many road trip miles successfully or pointing out states that have done things right with their charging infrastructure.

You are an economist, bring data/empirical evidence to the conversation. You bring up Vermont, but your opinion on what you consider "state backfire" is just that, opinion, since you share no uptime stats or a percentage of charging stations that are inoperable. Sure, 50kW speeds are not ideal, but it is better than nothing. Once again, you can have your opinion, but don't be surprised or overly sensitive if someone calls bull$hit on your statement by providing first hand knowledge of successes in more states than one. Hell, I even forgot to mention the State of Kansas in my first post since I have used state charging infrastructure between Topeka and Lawrence on my way to football and basket ball games in Lawrence.

I am sure people on this forum get tired of me continually pointing out that many of us are logging considerable road trip miles in CCS enabled vehicles without issues. I would not be insulted if someone was like, "give it a rest, dude, we got it the first 10 times you brought it up." But, I find the "charging infrastructure dark side team" tiresome, so I feel like I need to bring balance into the conversation by sharing positive first hand experiences.

I am sure the Europeans on this forum sit back and laugh if they even bother to read our posts about the state of EV charging in the US. That being said, there is balance in everything, you are way one way about charging, while I am on the complete opposite side of the spectrum.

 

[Jonathan S.]

"If you are going to pretend to be an authority on all things charging, at least know what you are talking about because your act is getting beyond stale."
"Since when does sharing with someone that their "act is getting beyond stale" constitute a personal insult? Think about it, the majority of your posts complain about the state of our charging infrastructure in the US."

You must have a high bar to meet for what constitutes a personal insult (i.e., as opposed to sticking to the substance of an analytical disagreement).

"[...] you share no uptime stats or a percentage of charging stations that are inoperable. Sure, 50kW speeds are not ideal, but it is better than nothing."

Does any DCFC network publish fully transparent and meaningful uptime data?
Many of them could not do so even if they tried, since they lack any real-time information on many aspects of charger functionality, often having no idea until some frustrated would-be charger reports it.

But based on PlugShare checkins and personal experience, at least five -- which might be all of them so far - of the VT state network stations equipped with two 50kW Blink chargers each are either unreliable or currently outright broken.
(Most amusing recent comment: "Someday they may fix this, but this is not that day." And in general, Blink does not attract the credit it deserves for its customer service. At least EA can identify your charger and restart/reset/reboot it remotely. Blink requires you to get on your hands and knees to inspect the serial number plate at the back of the charger at the ground, using your phone's flashlight in the dark, just to learn that only the station owner can re-whatever the charger, and being a seasonal establishment that is currently closed, so much for that plan. And when it's open, the owner is fine with having its restaurant and hotel patrons ICE the chargers, since it's not like the owner paid anything for it in the first place. Just don't bother trying to get Blink to follow through on its promise of refunding the remainder of the $20 that was charged in advance, or sicing your credit card company on Blink to obtain the refund is a fun victory, even if merely symbolic.)

As for "better than nothing" my entire point in bringing up this state-paid network is that we might very well have far better privately funded stations in place throughout VT were it not for this state-paid network.
And even the functional gov't-paid networks inevitably crowd out privately funded networks to some extent.
(For example, I am astonished that the combination of EA + NYS gov't bureaucracy + my childhood hometown of Binghamton + extra bonus points for a particular business neighborhood for every nice established has either left or closed = a perfectly functioning station, but that of course means that nobody will construct a privately funded station anywhere nearby for the foreseeable future.)

But whatever their funding source, I have acknowledged in many other posts that some regions do have adequate non-proprietary DCFC infrastructure.
(One Rivian flicks the Open To All switch on its currently proprietary network, just its two stations in northern New England will transform access to VT for drivers from Boston coming up I-89 and NYC/CT coming up I-91.)
And I too appreciate hearing (however repeatedly) of regions and/or stations that do work just fine.
Especially since it raises the intriguing analytical q of, If that network can make its chargers work well there, then why not everywhere?

Until then, no need to speculate on "I am sure the Europeans on this forum sit back and laugh if they even bother to read our posts about the state of EV charging in the US." ... as some indeed have expressed amusingly gloating comments to that effect in response to our various tales of woe.

Out of curiosity, I did tally up my most recent 69 posts, and 30% of them were bemoaning the non-proprietary DCFC infrastructure.
So, a sizable %, sure. But not a majority.

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