Part 2: The J1 Powertrain

[prj]

Yes if possible . Tx

Ok, will do next week and report the result here.

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[Rik_CT4s]

Ok, will do next week and report the result here.

As i saw on your website you did post the 4s result and that is coming from stock very impressive. Coming from a heavily tuned rs5 B9 I always found the taycan turbo s rather slow 100-200. If that can be improved it would be great.

Pls also check SOC as that time as it will differ quite a bit I reckon as the SOC drops.
Cheers great wknd ahead.

 

[prj]

As i saw on your website you did post the 4s result and that is coming from stock very impressive. Coming from a heavily tuned rs5 B9 I always found the taycan turbo s rather slow 100-200. If that can be improved it would be great.

Pls also check SOC as that time as it will differ quite a bit I reckon as the SOC drops.
Cheers great wknd ahead.

I will charge it to 100% before testing. SoC probably will be around 95% once I reach the "testing spot".

 

[Mr.Smith]

I will charge it to 100% before testing. SoC probably will be around 95% once I reach the "testing spot".

Try to do a roll from 60km to 200km to test the 100-200.

From launch you should get 6.1sec, from a roll it will be worse.

 

[prj]

Try to do a roll from 60km to 200km to test the 100-200.

From launch you should get 6.1sec, from a roll it will be worse.

Yeah with the stock software it will be. I will flash the car torque limit to stock, do the test, and then flash it back to tuned, and do the test again, that'll give the improvement.

 

[Rik_CT4s]

Yeah with the stock software it will be. I will flash the car torque limit to stock, do the test, and then flash it back to tuned, and do the test again, that'll give the improvement.

Very curious to see this result. Also, when openly communicated (unlike other tuners) it will add more understanding and hopefully more forum members are in for this tune.

Thank you @prj for your contributions and additional time consuming efforts to go the extra mile, literally. While it is commercial, you do what you can to explain more than others, which helps in building trust in this matter.

Good weekend to you. Your fingers must be very tired after replying all the remarks and messages. Keep some feeling in those fingers please to upkeep the coding and tuning you are doing.

 

[prj]

Very curious to see this result. Also, when openly communicated (unlike other tuners) it will add more understanding and hopefully more forum members are in for this tune.

Thank you @prj for your contributions and additional time consuming efforts to go the extra mile, literally. While it is commercial, you do what you can to explain more than others, which helps in building trust in this matter.

Good weekend to you. Your fingers must be very tired after replying all the remarks and messages. Keep some feeling in those fingers please to upkeep the coding and tuning you are doing.

I mean those numbers are useful for marketing materials as well. They can be put on the website, so I would have done that anyway, don't worry. Will just expedite it a little.

And no problem. This is my job, and I like what I do.

 

[Porsche-Guru]

I mean those numbers are useful for marketing materials as well. They can be put on the website, so I would have done that anyway, don't worry. Will just expedite it a little.

And no problem. This is my job, and I like what I do.

What a breath of fresh air…. (with the above statement).

It’s been a while we have had an honest, open, plain talking & transparent tuning person/ solution …. And I don't mean just Porsche and this forum, I mean across many manufacturers.

The world of tuning (across various car manufacturers) over the last few years has become so dodgy and untrustworthy. Inaccurate information, mis-sellling, resellers, poor after sales support and most vendors just pushing for a sale.

I am not saying that there are not good honest tuners out there, they are there… but few and far between.

Thank you @prj
Very pleased that we have you on this forum…

 

[prj]

What a breath of fresh air…. (with the above statement).

It’s been a while we have had an honest, open, plain talking & transparent tuning person/ solution …. And I don't mean just Porsche and this forum, I mean across many manufacturers.

The world of tuning (across various car manufacturers) over the last few years has become so dodgy and untrustworthy. Inaccurate information, mis-sellling, resellers, poor after sales support and most vendors just pushing for a sale.

I am not saying that there are not good honest tuners out there, they are there… but few and far between.

Thank you @prj
Very pleased that we have you on this forum…

Thank you for the kind words.
This is in a way a pet project though - I just decided to share what goes on behind the scenes, and so far I am pleasantly surprised at the overall level of the civil discussion here.

 

[ATCO]

It is interesting how the 2 motors with their different torque curves as well as 2 speed transmission on the rear motor combine to give an interesting power curve throughout the speed range.

Here is the graph for 4S:

Because the rear motor of the 4S reaches max power of 480 only at 10 000 rpm after the shift to 2nd gear we fall back to 8000rpm and out of peak power band and that is why there is a "dip" at 130km/h before it picks up again and reaches 700hp at around 160km/h but still less than at 100km/h because now the front motor is making less power.

The power graph of the big rear motor in the turbo is much flatter without the dip between 100km/h and 160km/h because the rear motor reaches max power 525 PS peak earlier (≈ 7 000 rpm) and doesn't fall out of the "sweet spot" after shift to 2nd.

Comparing the 4S and the turbo after between 80km/h and shift to 2nd gear there is only 30-40hp difference. The difference after the shift to 2nd until about 160km/h is about 100hp and after 160km/h it goes back to only 30hp advantage to the turbo.

 

[prj]

It is interesting how the 2 motors with their different torque curves as well as 2 speed transmission on the rear motor combine to give an interesting power curve throughout the speed range.

Here is the graph for 4S:

Real life chart doesn't really look 100% like this, because the gearbox takes some time to shift. But somewhat close.

The gearbox shift is not instant, so it is not possible to complete the shift after 125km/h or so, otherwise it could hit the rev limiter during shift. 133km/h is 16000 rpm. I will see if invcon enforces this next week. Maybe we can go a little higher RPM.

So yes, you can't keep the small motor all the time in power band, but this is the best that can be done. After the shift the power output drops to 650 PS at 125 km/h and then goes back up. At 136 km/h it's already 680 PS though, which is the output of the stock Turbo.

It also makes 740PS. I quoted 730 exactly for this reason here
Your graph is a bit pessimistic.

There's one more reason why the drop is this significant. I noticed that probably some kind of timer expires on the inverters and by the time you get to the shift it has dropped out of launch control torque limit as well and maxes out at 340Nm instead of 360Nm during first gear.

Doesn't happen unless you start from standstill. Of course not a problem with the larger motor cars since their optimal shift is between 85-95 km/h.

 

[ATCO]

Thank you for the detailed graph. Do you get the data with your VehiCAL software or is this some development tool u use to tune the ASG?

Mine wasn't meant to be precise, sorry if I gave a wrong impression. It was based on the graphs of front and rear motor you provided. I just wanted to get a rough idea of the interaction of 2 motors and how their power bands overlap depending on speed.

 

[Avantgarde]

There's one more reason why the drop is this significant. I noticed that probably some kind of timer expires on the inverters and by the time you get to the shift it has dropped out of launch control torque limit as well and maxes out at 340Nm instead of 360Nm during first gear.

This is interesting. Another member pulled a LC torque curve for RWD from CarScanner. (See attached). And 360nm is only available for 3-4 seconds, up to 50-60kmh at launch and then car defaults to 340nm max after that, even though LC is still active. (I also observed this on CarScanner).

How would this work with your tune? Eg if you slam the accelerator at high speed (eg say 120-130kmh) do you still get the 360nm for 3-4 seconds? or 360nm will only be limited to 0-50 kmh speed range?

 

[Gru]

This is interesting. Another member pulled a LC torque curve for RWD from CarScanner. (See attached). And 360nm is only available for 3-4 seconds, up to 50-60kmh at launch and then car defaults to 340nm max after that, even though LC is still active. (I also observed this on CarScanner).

I'll come back on that soon...

here : https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...l-with-redshift-performance.24586/post-393783

 

[prj]

Thank you for the detailed graph. Do you get the data with your VehiCAL software or is this some development tool u use to tune the ASG?

Yes, from the VehiCAL software. But you can not use it in advanced mode without having a special patch in the ASG.

This is interesting. Another member pulled a LC torque curve for RWD from CarScanner. (See attached). And 360nm is only available for 3-4 seconds, up to 50-60kmh at launch and then car defaults to 340nm max after that, even though LC is still active. (I also observed this on CarScanner).

How would this work with your tune? Eg if you slam the accelerator at high speed (eg say 120-130kmh) do you still get the 360nm for 3-4 seconds? or 360nm will only be limited to 0-50 kmh speed range?

It's a timer, when you hit it at speed you still get 360Nm on the rear motor. 2.5 seconds on the dot.
You can see here from a standstill vs hitting at 5km/h (with my patch) from a roll, the entire graph gets shifted by 5km/h to the right. Ignore the different gear shift rpm, I was still in process of tuning the car, and moved the shiftpoint (the solid line is with a later version of the software with the shift point adjusted to 125km/h).

If you floor it at speed, you also get the 360Nm for exactly 2.5 seconds max.

This only affects the cars with the small motor though. Probably RWD is the most affected. The big motor cars are long out of the peak torque limit at that point and are power limited. This graph is from an e-tron GT.

I didn't think cycling the flexray bit after 2.5 seconds was a good idea either, since it affects more than just the motors.

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