Profile/Timer Interaction

[Jhenson29]

30 min rule - this doesn't happen in practice

Yes, it does. I’ve tested it personally.

Set up a non-repeating timer, turn all other timers and profiles off, then wait 30 minutes after the departure time. The car starts charging again.

Do you either have a profile enabled or is your timer repeating? If so, then I don’t believe it applies. But you definitely don’t have to press the release button as I left the car completely alone during my test.

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[W1NGE]

Yes, it does. I’ve tested it personally.

Set up a non-repeating timer, turn all other timers and profiles off, then wait 30 minutes after the departure time. The car starts charging again.

Do you either have a profile enabled or is your timer repeating? If so, then I don’t believe it applies. But you definitely don’t have to press the release button as I left the car completely alone during my test.

I have a daily timer and a profile and therefore don't encounter this quirk.

 

[Jhenson29]

I have a daily timer and a profile and therefore don't encounter this quirk.

Right, so you have other things set up to prevent this behavior. But @madeyong did not. So, this 30 min timeout and continued charging applies and therefore does happen in practice.

 

[W1NGE]

Right, so you have other things set up to prevent this behavior. But @madeyong did not. So, this 30 min timeout and continued charging applies and therefore does happen in practice.

I recommended they create the same as I have. Illogical to create a single event for charging and then not use the car and / or leave connected unless you disable the timer / profile.

 

[Jhenson29]

I recommended they create the same as I have. Illogical to create a single event for charging and then not use the car and / or leave connected unless you disable the timer / profile.

Isn’t it also illogical to set up preferred charge times on a profile used in conjunction with a timer?

 

[madeyong]

Isn’t it also illogical to set up preferred charge times on a profile used in conjunction with a timer?

if I’m understanding this all correctly (which I thought I did but now doubting myself) preferred charging times are relevant if your utility provider gives you a break on rates only during certain windows. If so, set up a profile with a low-ish target charge to reach immediately and then to do the rest during the preferred window. If you want to couple that with ensuring that the final target charge is ready at a particular time, and potentially also pre-climatized at that time, you need to use a timer along with the preferred charging times profile. Right?

If you get no benefit of reduced rates during certain times then it seems you can use just a daily repeating timer to both limit the charge and have that charge occur just prior to the timer’s completion.

 

[Jhenson29]

If you want to couple that with ensuring that the final target charge is ready at a particular time, and potentially also pre-climatized at that time, you need to use a timer along with the preferred charging times profile. Right?

Except the timer overrides the preferred charging times making them irrelevant.

In fact, careful consideration will show that there is no way for the preferred times to have any effect and maintain the operation of the timer, which is to reach a target charge at a target time. For it to do so, given a constant charge rate (which the car assumes, because what choice does it have?), it has to start charging at a specific time. Not earlier. Not later. So, since this is true, the preferred times are irrelevant.

Go and test It. It doesn’t take long. I just ran through the scenarios on my car in the time since your post just to verify (even though I was pretty sure because I’ve tested all of this before). If you are within a preferred charge time but it’s waiting on an active timer, it won’t charge. If you are outside of the preferred charge time and it’s time to start charging for the timer, it will charge.

Preferred charge times serve no purpose when used in conjunction with a timer.

 

[W1NGE]

Isn’t it also illogical to set up preferred charge times on a profile used in conjunction with a timer?

No, not for me. This is the only way to guarantee my charge level, charging start and end times within my off peak (low cost) electricity period can be controlled and as I have two geographically disparate home charging locations the profiles auto select without further intervention.

 

[Jhenson29]

No, not for me. This is the only way to guarantee my charge level, charging start and end times within my off peak (low cost) electricity period can be controlled and as I have two geographically disparate home charging locations the profiles auto select without further intervention.

But, read my above post. The timer overrides the preferred charge times.

Yes?

For the timer to work, the car has to start charging at a specific time. For the preferred times to work, the car has to charge within a specific time.

So you end up in one of two scenarios.

1. The timer starts and ends within the preferred charge time. In this case, it would have done so anyway, so the preferred charge times are pointless.
2. The timer either starts or ends outside of the preferred charge times. In this case, the preferred charge times are ignored so they are, again, pointless.

Can you give me an example of where the preferred charge times cause the car to behave differently than it would have without them when a timer is in use?

 

[W1NGE]

But, read my above post. The timer overrides the preferred charge times.

Yes?

For the timer to work, the car has to start charging at a specific time. For the preferred times to work, the car has to charge within a specific time.

So you end up in one of two scenarios.

1. The timer starts and ends within the preferred charge time. In this case, it would have done so anyway, so the preferred charge times are pointless.
2. The timer either starts or ends outside of the preferred charge times. In this case, the preferred charge times are ignored so they are, again, pointless.

Can you give me an example of where the preferred charge times cause the car to behave differently than it would have without them when a timer is in use?

Daily timer I've used for past 12 months

Profile

End result (when EVSE is connected) is a car charged to 85% and ready for use by 07:00 (not 06:00 as per the Timer) and takes into account my low cost electric between 00:00 and 07:00.

The one thing I can't demonstrate to prove the point further is the data from my PMCC as the time-offset is 6 - 7 hours adrift (a software bug) regardless that it is set to the correct time zone and takes the time from the car as it's time sync source. The period of charge is however within the above preferred charging time window.

 

[Jhenson29]

End result (when EVSE is connected) is a car charged to 85% and ready for use by 07:00 (not 06:00 as per the Timer) and takes into account my low cost electric between 00:00 and 07:00.

I think we’d need more information about starting SoC, charge rate, and time the car was plugged in to review further.

I can possibly see if you don’t have time to reach the timer target charge and if the timer is set before the end of the preferred charge time that the car could continue charging during the remainder of the preferred charge time.

I’ll have to test that separately. But it doesn’t make any sense for the car to reach your target at the end of the preferred charge time by the car’s choice. That would not be respecting the timer which says it should be at the target charge at the departure time. Not after. This is why I think that when the car was plugged in, it just didn’t have time to get there.

 

[W1NGE]

I think we’d need more information about starting SoC, charge rate, and time the car was plugged in to review further.

I can possibly see if you don’t have time to reach the timer target charge and if the timer is set before the end of the preferred charge time that the car could continue charging during the remainder of the preferred charge time.

I’ll have to test that separately. But it doesn’t make any sense for the car to reach your target at the end of the preferred charge time by the car’s choice. That would not be respecting the timer which says it should be at the target charge at the departure time. Not after. This is why I think that when the car was plugged in, it just didn’t have time to get there.

SOC at home - anything from 14% to 70% - same outcome.

Time to raise the white flag!

 

[Jhenson29]

SOC at home - anything from 14% to 70% - same outcome.

Time to raise the white flag!

Charge rate? Plug in time?

 

[W1NGE]

Charge rate? Plug in time?

Single Phase, 32A, 7.4kW (up to 8.0kW). Usually connect the PMCC anywhere between 17:00 and 20:00.

 

[Jhenson29]

Single Phase, 32A, 7.4kW (up to 8.0kW). Usually connect the PMCC anywhere between 17:00 and 20:00.

Thanks. I’m going to do some testing.

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