Taycan 4S tuning - hypothetically

[Genau]

The new GTS is said to have the same motors as the Turbo or Turbo S, Is it then hypothetically possible to 'alter/tune/hack/upgrade' (whatever you want to call it) the software and unlock the same power as the Turbo S in the GTS?

No.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/turbo-s-vs-turbo-80-120kph-times.956/post-11125​

Sponsored

 

[Rcrewse7]

So I’ve asked myself this same question about tuning my 4S since before delivery in April of this year.

I’ve been a fan of tuning my ICE cars for a long time, and love to take advantage of some of the performance that manufacturers regularly leave on the table for model hierarchy and reliability. It’s been even nicer over the past recent years as more piggy back options became available which could be used on vehicles under warranty, and were undetectable when removed before dealership visits. With that said, I figured this was something I’d have to forgo with this car.

I envied the performance updates Tesla rolled out for their cars, but realistically figured Porsche would never do such a thing when they’re among the best at monetizing extras for vehicles when they were willing to charge me for something as basic as power folding mirrors on a car that starts north of $100K. But then I noticed that Porsche has improved performance of the Turbo S since release, the flagship of course. I noticed quarter mile times for initial reviews in the high 10’s, and now there are folks that have gotten down to as low as 10.2. Porsche acknowledges the extra performance in software update documentation too….

So from there, I started exploring potential tuners earlier this year starting with Hennessy who initially stated online that they’d develop performance enhancements for the Taycan, but let me know that they cancelled the project after I emailed them. I then reached out to Ingenext who produces plug in tuners for Tesla’s, which are documented to work well, and they informed me that the market for the Taycan is too small to develop anything. I stopped looking for a while after this.

As I’ve enjoyed the car and gotten to know it better, it’s became very apparent to me that Porsche is leaving a lot of performance untouched in the 4S. For one thing, by Porsche specs on the motors, it appears that some ~10 lb. ft. of torque and 145 horsepower are detuned from the 4S when comparing the published front motor spec of the turbo (shared with the 4S), and the rear motor spec of the RWD (also shared with the 4S.). If these were added back into peak power of the 4S, we’d be looking at hp figures of 707, and torque at 489 ft. lbs. Curiously, the single motor in the Taycan RWD and the rear motor in the Turbo models make similar peak hp, however the longer rotor length in the Turbo motors apparently affords much more torque.

Further, it started annoying me when I would accelerate at different speeds, and notice how the car felt unleashed from 70-80 mph on up. Playing around in a controlled environment with my friend in his Shelby GT350, we did some pulls from 30-40 mph. Nobody was surprised that we were pretty even in the mid range, but surprisingly, around 70-80mph I would feel another surge in power (and no, it was not the gear shift as we know that happens much earlier) and consistently walk away from him. I fully expected him with much less weight, a motor tuned for top end performance, and only marginally less hp to be a monster at speed. Of course there are many factors in play when comparing EV acceleration to ICE (gear shifts, gearing, power band, etc.), but as I’ve paid attention since, it sure seems like an extra jump in power beyond 70 mph…let me know if you guys have felt this too.

So recently I reached out to Steinbauer engineering, an Austrian company, who has a long history of producing tuners for many different vehicles, yes including tractors, but also for older Tesla Model S’s. There isn’t much in the way of reviews in English on how their products have fared for Tesla’s, however when I emailed them they let me know that they had started development of a tuner for the Taycan 4S! I’m not holding my breath that a solution is around the corner, but the thought of being able to unleash some untapped power, heck even just the overboost 100% of the time, would be pretty sweet.

 

[David Bennett]

So I’ve asked myself this same question about tuning my 4S since before delivery in April of this year.

I’ve been a fan of tuning my ICE cars for a long time, and love to take advantage of some of the performance that manufacturers regularly leave on the table for model hierarchy and reliability. It’s been even nicer over the past recent years as more piggy back options became available which could be used on vehicles under warranty, and were undetectable when removed before dealership visits. With that said, I figured this was something I’d have to forgo with this car.

I envied the performance updates Tesla rolled out for their cars, but realistically figured Porsche would never do such a thing when they’re among the best at monetizing extras for vehicles when they were willing to charge me for something as basic as power folding mirrors on a car that starts north of $100K. But then I noticed that Porsche has improved performance of the Turbo S since release, the flagship of course. I noticed quarter mile times for initial reviews in the high 10’s, and now there are folks that have gotten down to as low as 10.2. Porsche acknowledges the extra performance in software update documentation too….

So from there, I started exploring potential tuners earlier this year starting with Hennessy who initially stated online that they’d develop performance enhancements for the Taycan, but let me know that they cancelled the project after I emailed them. I then reached out to Ingenext who produces plug in tuners for Tesla’s, which are documented to work well, and they informed me that the market for the Taycan is too small to develop anything. I stopped looking for a while after this.

As I’ve enjoyed the car and gotten to know it better, it’s became very apparent to me that Porsche is leaving a lot of performance untouched in the 4S. For one thing, by Porsche specs on the motors, it appears that some ~10 lb. ft. of torque and 145 horsepower are detuned from the 4S when comparing the published front motor spec of the turbo (shared with the 4S), and the rear motor spec of the RWD (also shared with the 4S.). If these were added back into peak power of the 4S, we’d be looking at hp figures of 707, and torque at 489 ft. lbs. Curiously, the single motor in the Taycan RWD and the rear motor in the Turbo models make similar peak hp, however the longer rotor length in the Turbo motors apparently affords much more torque.

Further, it started annoying me when I would accelerate at different speeds, and notice how the car felt unleashed from 70-80 mph on up. Playing around in a controlled environment with my friend in his Shelby GT350, we did some pulls from 30-40 mph. Nobody was surprised that we were pretty even in the mid range, but surprisingly, around 70-80mph I would feel another surge in power (and no, it was not the gear shift as we know that happens much earlier) and consistently walk away from him. I fully expected him with much less weight, a motor tuned for top end performance, and only marginally less hp to be a monster at speed. Of course there are many factors in play when comparing EV acceleration to ICE (gear shifts, gearing, power band, etc.), but a. it sure seems like an extra jump in power beyond 70 mph…let me know if you guys have felt this too.

So I’ve asked myself this same question about tuning my 4S since before delivery in April of this year.

I’ve been a fan of tuning my ICE cars for a long time, and love to take advantage of some of the performance that manufacturers regularly leave on the table for model hierarchy and reliability. It’s been even nicer over the past recent years as more piggy back options became available which could be used on vehicles under warranty, and were undetectable when removed before dealership visits. With that said, I figured this was something I’d have to forgo with this car.

I envied the performance updates Tesla rolled out for their cars, but realistically figured Porsche would never do such a thing when they’re among the best at monetizing extras for vehicles when they were willing to charge me for something as basic as power folding mirrors on a car that starts north of $100K. But then I noticed that Porsche has improved performance of the Turbo S since release, the flagship of course. I noticed quarter mile times for initial reviews in the high 10’s, and now there are folks that have gotten down to as low as 10.2. Porsche acknowledges the extra performance in software update documentation too….

So from there, I started exploring potential tuners earlier this year starting with Hennessy who initially stated online that they’d develop performance enhancements for the Taycan, but let me know that they cancelled the project after I emailed them. I then reached out to Ingenext who produces plug in tuners for Tesla’s, which are documented to work well, and they informed me that the market for the Taycan is too small to develop anything. I stopped looking for a while after this.

As I’ve enjoyed the car and gotten to know it better, it’s became very apparent to me that Porsche is leaving a lot of performance untouched in the 4S. For one thing, by Porsche specs on the motors, it appears that some ~10 lb. ft. of torque and 145 horsepower are detuned from the 4S when comparing the published front motor spec of the turbo (shared with the 4S), and the rear motor spec of the RWD (also shared with the 4S.). If these were added back into peak power of the 4S, we’d be looking at hp figures of 707, and torque at 489 ft. lbs. Curiously, the single motor in the Taycan RWD and the rear motor in the Turbo models make similar peak hp, however the longer rotor length in the Turbo motors apparently affords much more torque.

Further, it started annoying me when I would accelerate at different speeds, and notice how the car felt unleashed from 70-80 mph on up. Playing around in a controlled environment with my friend in his Shelby GT350, we did some pulls from 30-40 mph. Nobody was surprised that we were pretty even in the mid range, but surprisingly, around 70-80mph I would feel another surge in power (and no, it was not the gear shift as we know that happens much earlier) and consistently walk away from him. I fully expected him with much less weight, a motor tuned for top end performance, and only marginally less hp to be a monster at speed. Of course there are many factors in play when comparing EV acceleration to ICE (gear shifts, gearing, power band, etc.), but as I’ve paid attention since, it sure seems like an extra jump in power beyond 70 mph…let me know if you guys have felt this too.

So recently I reached out to Steinbauer engineering, an Austrian company, who has a long history of producing tuners for many different vehicles, yes including tractors, but also for older Tesla Model S’s. There isn’t much in the way of reviews in English on how their products have fared for Tesla’s, however when I emailed them they let me know that they had started development of a tuner for the Taycan 4S! I’m not holding my breath that a solution is around the corner, but the thought of being able to unleash some untapped power, heck even just the overboost 100% of the time, would be pretty sweet.

I’ve noticed the power surge in the mid 70s and was trying to research it just the other day. At first I thought it was a gear change since it is right at the top of the theoretical range for 1st and interestingly the sport sound changed to a lower frequency sound at the same point. Then I looked at the published gear change strategy and a gear change seems unlikely unless something has changed since the documentation released at launch. Mines a MY2022. Even if it was a gear change I’m not sure why it would be delayed that late if more torque was available by an earlier upchange.

 

[Rcrewse7]

I’ve noticed the power surge in the mid 70s and was trying to research it just the other day. At first I thought it was a gear change since it is right at the top of the theoretical range for 1st and interestingly the sport sound changed to a lower frequency sound at the same point. Then I looked at the published gear change strategy and a gear change seems unlikely unless something has changed since the documentation released at launch. Mines a MY2022. Even if it was a gear change I’m not sure why it would be delayed that late if more torque was available by an earlier upchange.

Whew, it’s not just me who feels it!

The gear change definitely happens earlier and has been discussed elsewhere on the forum. I usually feel it a little above 50 mph, although I’ve read it can go all the way to 62 mph when being launched. Yet, to your point, it almost feels like a gear change in the 70’s, however it must just be software unlocking full(er) potential.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/2nd-gear.4085/page-2

 

[Bigben]

So I’ve asked myself this same question about tuning my 4S since before delivery in April of this year.

I’ve been a fan of tuning my ICE cars for a long time, and love to take advantage of some of the performance that manufacturers regularly leave on the table for model hierarchy and reliability. It’s been even nicer over the past recent years as more piggy back options became available which could be used on vehicles under warranty, and were undetectable when removed before dealership visits. With that said, I figured this was something I’d have to forgo with this car.

I envied the performance updates Tesla rolled out for their cars, but realistically figured Porsche would never do such a thing when they’re among the best at monetizing extras for vehicles when they were willing to charge me for something as basic as power folding mirrors on a car that starts north of $100K. But then I noticed that Porsche has improved performance of the Turbo S since release, the flagship of course. I noticed quarter mile times for initial reviews in the high 10’s, and now there are folks that have gotten down to as low as 10.2. Porsche acknowledges the extra performance in software update documentation too….

So from there, I started exploring potential tuners earlier this year starting with Hennessy who initially stated online that they’d develop performance enhancements for the Taycan, but let me know that they cancelled the project after I emailed them. I then reached out to Ingenext who produces plug in tuners for Tesla’s, which are documented to work well, and they informed me that the market for the Taycan is too small to develop anything. I stopped looking for a while after this.

As I’ve enjoyed the car and gotten to know it better, it’s became very apparent to me that Porsche is leaving a lot of performance untouched in the 4S. For one thing, by Porsche specs on the motors, it appears that some ~10 lb. ft. of torque and 145 horsepower are detuned from the 4S when comparing the published front motor spec of the turbo (shared with the 4S), and the rear motor spec of the RWD (also shared with the 4S.). If these were added back into peak power of the 4S, we’d be looking at hp figures of 707, and torque at 489 ft. lbs. Curiously, the single motor in the Taycan RWD and the rear motor in the Turbo models make similar peak hp, however the longer rotor length in the Turbo motors apparently affords much more torque.

Further, it started annoying me when I would accelerate at different speeds, and notice how the car felt unleashed from 70-80 mph on up. Playing around in a controlled environment with my friend in his Shelby GT350, we did some pulls from 30-40 mph. Nobody was surprised that we were pretty even in the mid range, but surprisingly, around 70-80mph I would feel another surge in power (and no, it was not the gear shift as we know that happens much earlier) and consistently walk away from him. I fully expected him with much less weight, a motor tuned for top end performance, and only marginally less hp to be a monster at speed. Of course there are many factors in play when comparing EV acceleration to ICE (gear shifts, gearing, power band, etc.), but as I’ve paid attention since, it sure seems like an extra jump in power beyond 70 mph…let me know if you guys have felt this too.

So recently I reached out to Steinbauer engineering, an Austrian company, who has a long history of producing tuners for many different vehicles, yes including tractors, but also for older Tesla Model S’s. There isn’t much in the way of reviews in English on how their products have fared for Tesla’s, however when I emailed them they let me know that they had started development of a tuner for the Taycan 4S! I’m not holding my breath that a solution is around the corner, but the thought of being able to unleash some untapped power, heck even just the overboost 100% of the time, would be pretty sweet.

Please let us know if you find a tuner who can unlock a bit more power for the 4S - I’ll definitely be interested as I remapped almost all my ICEs! Also while it’s a marginal increase in boost mode for the Turbo, it is a substantial gap on the S, as +15% HP is a great upgrade and much more useable if always ON rather than tied to launch control…

 

[285kph]

Yep, the inverter might be a bottleneck to achieve more power. But remember it already accommodates for the +80hp during LC, so it is absolutely rated for that draw (current). Then the issue might be cooling, and we go back to square/post 1 of this thread. Don't think cooling would be an issue.

When your assumptions lead to the nonsensical result that Porsche is limiting the duration of max power just to spite their customers, it's time to have another look. If battery cooling is not the limiting factor for the 4S, one would assume it's one of the components not shared with the turbo, i.e., inverter or motor, that is cooling-limited.

 

[Gubbjaevel]

When your assumptions lead to the nonsensical result that Porsche is limiting the duration of max power just to spite their customers, it's time to have another look.

Bud, don't know if you're drunk or just trolling here, but I've never said or implied that.
Assuming you're not trolling, not drunk; I would assume the limit of LC power would have to to with durability and/or warranty.

If battery cooling is not the limiting factor for the 4S, one would assume it's one of the components not shared with the turbo, i.e., inverter or motor, that is cooling-limited.

Inverters and electrical motors are (mostly) air cooled. Meaning that is enough.
So - no. Inverter or motor cooling capacity would not be the limiting factor.

....until I'm proven wrong.

(Haven't visited this post in a long, long time);
Read someone mentionnned Hennessey. They had information on their site, and replied by mail, on their intention of tuning the Taycan since April 2020, fyi.

 

[285kph]

Inverters and electrical motors are (mostly) air cooled. Meaning that is enough.
So - no. Inverter or motor cooling capacity would not be the limiting factor.

Where does the "mostly" air cooled come from? Porsche says: "Electric motors convert more than 90 per cent of the energy into propulsion. But just as in an internal combustion engine, the losses are converted into heat that has to be dissipated. That is why the motors have a cooling water jacket. "

Losses in the motor are much larger than in the inverter and cooling the motor internals is more difficult, so presumably heat losses in the motor limit duration of max power.

 

[David Bennett]

I’m sort of in the camp that there is more potential in the 4s than has been tuned in by Porsche. But I accept I may be entirely wrong.

The continous power of the rwd (which shares the back end with the 4s) is 375hp with the big battery. The front motor is shared with all the 4 wheel drive versions and is rated at 235hp (255 in TS with the larger inverter). I have not found any data on whether this is with overboost or continuous but there is a discussion about torque increases above the quoted figures when overboost is used in the Turbo S so it is easy to infer the remaing data refers to continuous.

That means the potential could be 610hp continuous. So no reason where the overboost figures of the 4s could not be held over a longer period of time. I’ve read somewhere that continuous means 10 seconds and after that power moves to another level, which I’ve never seen quoted anywhere.

Anybody got on good data on the continuous rating of the front motor?

The Turbo makes 615hp continuous with the rear a 449hp so the front has to have at least 166hp continuous.

This would mean 541hp in the 4s.

 

[Gubbjaevel]

Losses in the motor are much larger than in the inverter and cooling the motor internals is more difficult, so presumably heat losses in the motor limit duration of max power.

Fair enough. Your assumption then is that the cooling system is somewhat different between the 4S and the T+TS? I can live with that, and that could indeed be a limiting factor. My bet is, still, that it's not.

Can't wait to find out, whenever!

 

[Rcrewse7]

Received an update from Steinbauer Engineering this morning stating that they are working towards a Spring release for the Taycan 4S tuning module, with more details to be forthcoming. Will keep you all posted.

 

[Gwaihir]

Received an update from Steinbauer Engineering this morning stating that they are working towards a Spring release for the Taycan 4S tuning module, with more details to be forthcoming. Will keep you all posted.

Just think what will be possible with the GTS?

 

[Rcrewse7]

Just think what will be possible with the GTS?

For sure. Definitely think that at least Turbo levels of power should be readily achievable since this is the model where it's actually published that it's a detuned drivetrain.

 

[miglio]

Gents,

I know it isn't going to happen this year, but perhaps next?

Facts (ish):
1) 4S+ has 490hp constant, 570hp on Launch control for a few seconds.
2) T has 625 hp constant, 680 hp on Launch control for a few seconds.

Assumptions:
1 ) The wiring will be the same for all cars (4S, T, TS). This means the diameter of the conductors. This means the same potential energy transfer within the conductors.
2) The cooling system will be the same for all cars (4S, T, TS). That means the diameter of pipes, size and efficiency of the circulation pumps etc. Same amount of cooling efficiency.
3) The cooling system will be able to override and reduce the effect of the motors, should it need to. (to prevent overheating).

Hypothesis:
4S could (easily) be tuned to deliver max (570hp) constantly, seeing as Turbo can deliver 625hp constantly.
This without endanger any internal parts.
T+TS could probably be tuned as well, but there you would be more into unknown territory when it comes to parts breaking, system overheating etc.

Does it make sense?
Have I missed something?

I think it possibile on new GTS because the same electric engines of turbo \ turbo s

 

[Gomboy86]

Received an update from Steinbauer Engineering this morning stating that they are working towards a Spring release for the Taycan 4S tuning module, with more details to be forthcoming. Will keep you all posted.

Following

Sponsored