Taycan the (front) tyre killer!

[Dee]

AWD models should wear evenly

They should but they don't.
My rears did 18.000km and were totally worn while my fronts were replaced at 22.000 cuz they were worn on the inside.

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[Pope]

Really?

Next time I am removing a front stack on one I'll make sure to remember that......

 

[Pope]

As you know I'm no Engineer so I may well be utterly wrong here!

Different levels of power can be sent to each of the four wheels with AWD whereas 4-WD the power distribution is the same. Apparently there are 4 types of AWD and my guess is that Porsche uses the automatic implementation - normally 2-WD and then when a wheel slips and the driveshaft to that wheel rotates faster traction control then kicks in and power is then sent by engaging the other axle to control / stop the slipping.

Using Google is a dangerous thing (!) but is this not correct?

Two separate motor drive units in 4wd models - one per axle; they aren't 'connected physically'. I used the term 4wd as all 4 wheels are driven as opposed to 2wd where only 2 wheels are driven.

From my experience a lot of wear is as a result of running in low/lowered for the majority of trips - the 'spec' of the chassis is checked at normal level; lowering increases camber and moves the toe value. Would be interesting to note the results from owners running lowering links...

Negative toe on the front axle slows turn-in; it would speed up turn-in if it was applied to the rear axle.

 

[simcity]

Hi all,

Is anyone else suffering from ridiculous front tyre degradation on their Taycan 4S? I know that I am, in fact I may hold the current record for worse tyre wear to-date! Here are my stats: Pirelli Zero P 265/35 ZR 21 101 Y

Front set replaced at 6008 miles having been condemned as unsafe and dangerous by my Porsche dealer. Rear tyres - barely a mark on them. After a minimum of of research (and a maximum of finger pointing) it was decided (by them) that this was untypical and down to my 'driving style' and the condition of the roads . Hmmm I said, so what you're implying is that by my driving the car on normal roads, at normal speeds this will always be the outcome? No they said, drive carefully within the limits of the vehicle and things will almost certainly improve. But I said, I have had Mercedes high performance cars for the last 10 years and have always managed to get at least 12,000 miles from my tyres, all without the benefit of AWD. My driving style hasn't changed since those times (largely due to range anxiety) so why is it a problem now? We can't comment on that sir, they replied.

Front set due for replacement again at 10,300 miles!!! Rear set - going strong. So having made a conscious effort to maintain the highest driving standards (in light of my earlier shock at finding I have been doing it wrong all these years), the net result is that this set of tyres have fared even worse than the first set. The 4292 miles they have managed is absurd... but not according to my dealer! 'We are seeing this more and more sir' they explained. 'It's all to do with the weight of the car at the front, it's a very heavy car sir as you know'. How many other owners are reporting the same problem I enquired? You know where the front tyres are having to be replaced on average every 5150 miles? 'We have a few issues on this subject that are known to us sir', they responded. And so on......

The upshot is that getting Porsche to admit to a specific problem is like pulling teeth without anaesthetic; painful in the extreme and a last resort.

Here's the serious point. Do any other owners have similar experiences? If so, what reasons have been given as to explain the problem? How have you been treated by your dealer? I have a couple of tyre centre/garage owning contacts and they say they have never seen anything like this on any Porsche model that have been driven reasonably. At £550 a tyre (plus re-balancing) this is starting to get on my nerves, so any help would be appreciated. For the record the wear is even across each tyre.

Many thanks.

1. Your car is relatively heavy and relatively powerful
2. Pirelli make decent sticky performance rubber but it’s accepted that they wear appreciably more than say Mich’s
3. If you drive enthusiastically then coupled with 1 and 2 I’ve seen Pirelli’s disappear in under 10,000 miles and a lot less!!

Try decent Michelin performance rubber next time around.

Should add get your alignment checked. Taycan front suspension is via subframe assembly, so ‘sub optimal’ from the pov that camber adjustment is a collective /average across left and right sides rather than truly independent. Also by rights a faff and PiA to adjust.

 

[f1eng]

Next time I am removing a front stack on one I'll make sure to remember that......

I was being a bit incredulous to the assertion 4WD and AWD are much different.

See my reply #59

My expertise is in designing and running F1 cars and what you write about tyres is pretty well true in racing too, though the influence of toe in or toe out at the front is very car design and tyre dependant I used to use toe out at the front for quicker turn in on almost every car/tyre combo.

As you say excess negative camber is very bad for tyre wear but also carcass damage (see Nigel Mansell Adelaide 1987) and as you mention lowering a car is a good way to get it wrong

My Taycan, when it arrives - soon I hope - will be mostly driven on “normal”.

 

[ToomanyLoti]

Hi guys I'm a new member but had my 2022 CT 4S since Feb.
I'll keep this as brief as I can.
I'm now at 7300miles.
I had a NS front replaced Mid April (Pot Hole Damage to sidewall on outside) and a Rear OS due to a screw mid July.
It went in 2 weeks ago for a software update and I asked them to check alignment as it was drifting off line very slightly.
I got a video next day with it up in the air and basically all the tyres are completely F&cked!!!!!
All shredding the sidewall where it meets the tread and down to the chords on three of four.
I do very little motorway driving just shortish journeys on B roads commuting and the school runs. I don't drive it like I nicked it, mostly, but it is a Porsche FFS......

I suspect there will be a lot of you driving round thinking your tyres are fine by looking and or feeling the tread across the width of the tyre. Even the tyre specialist where I normally go had a look/feel before it went in and didn't spot the damage.
I drive mostly in sport or normal very occasionally when I need the range.
It was my only concern when taking the car on that the tyres must have to be something special to cope with the weight and power.
I'm getting absolutely no where with the dealer other than they say they have checked alignment and apart form a camber angle tiny adjustment on one corner its all good.
Do they all do this? Is it me? If so tell me what to do to stop it happening again or is the car/tyre or both flawed in some way.
I cant recommend anything but if I were an owner who has not asked the dealer to check their tyres for this damage I would be very concerned. Imagine a sudden deflation as result of a sidewall rip during cornering?????
Post up here if you check and find anything

Many thanks

 

[BigBob]

Hi guys I'm a new member but had my 2022 CT 4S since Feb.
I'll keep this as brief as I can.
I'm now at 7300miles.
I had a NS front replaced Mid April (Pot Hole Damage to sidewall on outside) and a Rear OS due to a screw mid July.
It went in 2 weeks ago for a software update and I asked them to check alignment as it was drifting off line very slightly.
I got a video next day with it up in the air and basically all the tyres are completely F&cked!!!!!
All shredding the sidewall where it meets the tread and down to the chords on three of four.
I do very little motorway driving just shortish journeys on B roads commuting and the school runs. I don't drive it like I nicked it, mostly, but it is a Porsche FFS......

I suspect there will be a lot of you driving round thinking your tyres are fine by looking and or feeling the tread across the width of the tyre. Even the tyre specialist where I normally go had a look/feel before it went in and didn't spot the damage.
I drive mostly in sport or normal very occasionally when I need the range.
It was my only concern when taking the car on that the tyres must have to be something special to cope with the weight and power.
I'm getting absolutely no where with the dealer other than they say they have checked alignment and apart form a camber angle tiny adjustment on one corner its all good.
Do they all do this? Is it me? If so tell me what to do to stop it happening again or is the car/tyre or both flawed in some way.
I cant recommend anything but if I were an owner who has not asked the dealer to check their tyres for this damage I would be very concerned. Imagine a sudden deflation as result of a sidewall rip during cornering?????
Post up here if you check and find anything

Many thanks

Thanks

Which tyres do you have?

 

[ToomanyLoti]

21" CT Design wheels on Good Years as fitted from Factory

 

[BigBob]

21" CT Design wheels on Good Years as fitted from Factory

Prompted me to check mine. CT4S, from March with 8000 miles - 80/20 normal/sport+.

20" CT off-road design wheels with factory fitted Pirelli Cinturato P7 tyres.

I checked from and back (on one side). No wear on the inside of the tyre wall, you can still see and feel the little ridges and similarly nothing onerous on the inside edge. Tyre wear is pretty even, though slightly more wear on the inside. Plenty of meat left across the whole tyre.

 

[thebuttonmonkey]

Hi all,

Is anyone else suffering from ridiculous front tyre degradation on their Taycan 4S? I know that I am, in fact I may hold the current record for worse tyre wear to-date! Here are my stats: Pirelli Zero P 265/35 ZR 21 101 Y

Front set replaced at 6008 miles having been condemned as unsafe and dangerous by my Porsche dealer. Rear tyres - barely a mark on them. After a minimum of of research (and a maximum of finger pointing) it was decided (by them) that this was untypical and down to my 'driving style' and the condition of the roads . Hmmm I said, so what you're implying is that by my driving the car on normal roads, at normal speeds this will always be the outcome? No they said, drive carefully within the limits of the vehicle and things will almost certainly improve. But I said, I have had Mercedes high performance cars for the last 10 years and have always managed to get at least 12,000 miles from my tyres, all without the benefit of AWD. My driving style hasn't changed since those times (largely due to range anxiety) so why is it a problem now? We can't comment on that sir, they replied.

Front set due for replacement again at 10,300 miles!!! Rear set - going strong. So having made a conscious effort to maintain the highest driving standards (in light of my earlier shock at finding I have been doing it wrong all these years), the net result is that this set of tyres have fared even worse than the first set. The 4292 miles they have managed is absurd... but not according to my dealer! 'We are seeing this more and more sir' they explained. 'It's all to do with the weight of the car at the front, it's a very heavy car sir as you know'. How many other owners are reporting the same problem I enquired? You know where the front tyres are having to be replaced on average every 5150 miles? 'We have a few issues on this subject that are known to us sir', they responded. And so on......

The upshot is that getting Porsche to admit to a specific problem is like pulling teeth without anaesthetic; painful in the extreme and a last resort.

Here's the serious point. Do any other owners have similar experiences? If so, what reasons have been given as to explain the problem? How have you been treated by your dealer? I have a couple of tyre centre/garage owning contacts and they say they have never seen anything like this on any Porsche model that have been driven reasonably. At £550 a tyre (plus re-balancing) this is starting to get on my nerves, so any help would be appreciated. For the record the wear is even across each tyre.

Many thanks.

I haven't got my Taycan yet (FRIDAY!), but my '22 Countryman JCW chewed its Pirelli fronts in 7000 miles - and they blamed my driving style too! And that's with 300bhp.

Took it to a specialist 3rd party tyre place rather than the dealer and they basically said Pirellis haven't been up to the job for a few years now, and couldn't believe dealers were still using them for performance. A set of hard wearing Michelin's later and I've seen barely any wear at all.

 

[simcity]

All shredding the sidewall where it meets the tread and down to the chords on three of four.

Asymmetric wear across the tyre = alignment check needed.

Soft(ish) compound rubber like on a lot of 'performance' Pirellis - where the tyre wears but evenly across the full width of the tyre - is expected and normal. Even under 10K miles.

 

[simcity]

Took it to a specialist 3rd party tyre place rather than the dealer and they basically said Pirellis haven't been up to the job for a few years now, and couldn't believe dealers were still using them for performance.

Good news on the car. But the advice your indy tyre bloke gave you was bollocks. They probably had a good kickback going from Michelin (also excellent tyres mind).

There's nothing inherently 'wrong' with modern Pirelli road rubber, the performance rubber is stickier/softer and the compound just wears faster.

 

[thebuttonmonkey]

Good news on the car. But the advice your indy tyre bloke gave you was bollocks. They probably had a good kickback going from Michelin (also excellent tyres mind).

There's nothing inherently 'wrong' with modern Pirelli road rubber, the performance rubber is stickier/softer and the compound just wears faster.

Yeah I'm sure there was some smoke blown. Still, they weren't any more money (and had to be ordered in, so it's not like they were trying to shift old stock) and I did do due diligence at the time. They're at least advertised as a harder wearing performance tyre. That might also be smoke and mirrors, but it does seen to be bearing up so far (and I haven't noticed a drop in performance, although that car of course is more about putting it down in a straight line than cornering).

 

[David Bennett]

Two separate motor drive units in 4wd models - one per axle; they aren't 'connected physically'. I used the term 4wd as all 4 wheels are driven as opposed to 2wd where only 2 wheels are driven.

From my experience a lot of wear is as a result of running in low/lowered for the majority of trips - the 'spec' of the chassis is checked at normal level; lowering increases camber and moves the toe value. Would be interesting to note the results from owners running lowering links...

Negative toe on the front axle slows turn-in; it would speed up turn-in if it was applied to the rear axle.

Fully agree with this. I run in sport plus most of the time and today after 11k miles my opc advised that I needed new tyres all round. Rears had even wear but the fronts are bald on the inner edge with relatively similar wear across the rest at about 4.5mm. Apparently, I need to have it aligned? yeah right! But this is exactly the wear pattern I would expect with the increased camber from a lower ride height and my rather exuberant use of the front end grip.

 

[Archimedes]

Just checked my 21” PZeros thoroughly. 7,500 miles, all look nearly brand new. No uneven wear on any tire and fronts and backs look like they have a similar wear rate so far. I drive like speed racer, but temps are moderate here year round and I’m obsessive about keeping pressures on the high side.

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