UK GTS ST order Feb: heard from dealer, and...

[TaycanHero]

Nothing. Sorry for the anti-climax.

But I appreciate they checked in with me. Email:

"... still awaiting allocations for Taycans to come through. Hopefully we start to get more influx towards the back end of the year so we can start fulfilling orders. Of course as soon as I know more I will certainly let you know."

That sounds like not even a single order will be delivered by end of the year.

Porsche Leicester.

The nearer it gets to April 2025, the more likely it gets to cancelling the order because of (likely) BIK changes.

Sponsored

 

[Midlifecrisis]

I am not sure that your interpretation is quite correct, just that the queue is longer than you thought or would like. I spoke to an SE last week who told me that ordering any Taycan of any variant now will mean a wait of >1 year. I think this was probably the case in February although the GTS was still the newest variant and could have had a shorter queue, depending on orders. He also told me that they have their allocations through now for the whole year - this is very unusual as they normally get 3 months worth at a time.

Putting this together, unless you get lucky and someone in front of you in the queue drops out, I think you are looking at a 2023 delivery. Maybe Feb/March. Of course someone might want to delay purchase and you get a build slot this year.

 

[TaycanHero]

I am not sure that your interpretation is quite correct, just that the queue is longer than you thought or would like. I spoke to an SE last week who told me that ordering any Taycan of any variant now will mean a wait of >1 year. I think this was probably the case in February although the GTS was still the newest variant and could have had a shorter queue, depending on orders. He also told me that they have their allocations through now for the whole year - this is very unusual as they normally get 3 months worth at a time.

Putting this together, unless you get lucky and someone in front of you in the queue drops out, I think you are looking at a 2023 delivery. Maybe Feb/March. Of course someone might want to delay purchase and you get a build slot this year.

My dealer - who has been very proactive - told me on paying the deposit early Feb, my GTS ST would be delivered in 12-15 months.

Presumably that could well slip to 18 months because of all the known delays.

Late summer 2023...

Feb/March I would say is very good going. I certainly was not expecting that even back in Feb, but we will see!

 

[Adz_1990]

I heard from my local OPC that they haven’t had one GTS ST go in to build yet, and they have a list of around 20 people waiting. The advice was, near to 2 years for a GTS ST if deposit placed today.

 

[TaycanHero]

I heard from my local OPC that they haven’t had one GTS ST go in to build yet, and they have a list of around 20 people waiting. The advice was, near to 2 years for a GTS ST if deposit placed today.

Jesus. That long I would cancel.

I rented a Jag F type V6 convertible yesterday and drove around a 350km route I planned out east from Cape Town and then back through into town. Lots of mountain roads. A full day of very "spirited" driving, sections of which I was laughing out loud in the theatre of it all.

It was huge fun. I didn't know what to expect as initially I wanted a Porsche Boxster, but it wasn't available. Glad it wasn't. Four cylinder vs V6. No contest.

It sounded incredible.

Looks like that will be my car (second hand) if the Taycan GTS ST gets extended into 2024.

 

[gusone]

Nothing. Sorry for the anti-climax.

But I appreciate they checked in with me. Email:

"... still awaiting allocations for Taycans to come through. Hopefully we start to get more influx towards the back end of the year so we can start fulfilling orders. Of course as soon as I know more I will certainly let you know."

That sounds like not even a single order will be delivered by end of the year.

Porsche Leicester.

The nearer it gets to April 2025, the more likely it gets to cancelling the order because of (likely) BIK changes.

Actually the BIK is not binary. The fact is as long as it is less that 40%-60% you are still in the money. Even if BIK climbs to 30%, that's a potential saving still of 20% if you are paying 50% tax. So, still worth doing as you pay less tax. Right now I pay £10k less tax each year. Rising BIK is not going to totally offset at any point.

 

[TaycanHero]

Actually the BIK is not binary. The fact is as long as it is less that 40%-60% you are still in the money. Even if BIK climbs to 30%, that's a potential saving still of 20% if you are paying 50% tax. So, still worth doing as you pay less tax. Right now I pay £10k less tax each year. Rising BIK is not going to totally offset at any point.

I pay myself minimal salary and the remainder in divis, so BIK increases are painful.

 

[gusone]

I pay myself minimal salary and the remainder in divis, so BIK increases are painful.

Aha. Yes. Then BIK rises can wipe out any benefit really quickly.

 

[AlexG]

Actually the BIK is not binary. The fact is as long as it is less that 40%-60% you are still in the money. Even if BIK climbs to 30%, that's a potential saving still of 20% if you are paying 50% tax. So, still worth doing as you pay less tax. Right now I pay £10k less tax each year. Rising BIK is not going to totally offset at any point.

Are you sure that’s how BIK works? I’m not an expert but I understand it’s as follows. If the BIK rate is 2% on a 100k vehicle, I think the idea is that you are deemed to have received 2k in salary. If it’s 37% (the highest rate at the moment), you’re deemed to have received 37k. Then you have your standard tax/national insurance etc applied to that. As your gross salary sacrificed for lease costs on a Taycan should not be anywhere near 37k per year, a 37% BIK would obviously result in significantly more tax than just taking the salary as cash instead.

 

[gusone]

Are you sure that’s how BIK works? I’m not an expert but I understand it’s as follows. If the BIK rate is 2% on a 100k vehicle, I think the idea is that you are deemed to have received 2k in salary. If it’s 37% (the highest rate at the moment), you’re deemed to have received 37k. Then you have your standard tax/national insurance etc applied to that. As your gross salary sacrificed for lease costs on a Taycan should not be anywhere near 37k per year, a 37% BIK would obviously result in significantly more tax than just taking the salary as cash instead.

There are 2 dynamics in play. Yes BiK on a perceived benefit but more importantly the tax saved through salary sacrifice. Take someone on 120k. The tax rate between 100-120k is 60% as the taper kicks in. So that's 12k tax for 20k. If you take a lease at gross (say 1800 a month) that's 22k a year ish. So now that 12k extra tax goes to the lease instead and your salary is 98k. Yes BiK is 1-2% on the 22k but that is a fraction on the 12k saved in tax. So the BiK tax would have to offset the 12k tax saving (due to sacrifice) which it cannot do unless it was 50%+. Long story short even if BIK was 20% you still save tax just less. Unless you run a ltd company and pay yourself in divis.

 

[Murph7355]

My dealer emailed me the other day to say they were finally going to register their GTS ST demonstrator shortly, and that they'd tee me up for a proper go in it.

They also noted they hadn't had a GTS ST allocation in yet and that they had no news on when that would happen. Taycan allocations at all are apparently thin on the ground.

To be fair, when I ordered on 7th Feb they had said that they weren't expecting any sort of material allocations on GTS STs until well into Q2...and from there their best guess at the time was 2 per month. So they were thinking they should be able to get me into one by the end of the year.

With all the issues that have happened since then, I'm expecting at least a quarter's delay. Two quarters wouldn't be a surprise (I would have thought they'd have a few suppliers of looms, but that ramping up production in the others, or finding others, wouldn't be a quick task).

So I'm currently resigned to getting a car some time between Jan and Jun next year.

If I was desperate to maximise tax gain values, I'd be looking at an ex-demo car. Sure, no GTS' right now (no way would I pay overs on a car like this - there was a silver one advertised recently at £145k...I reckon it was a similar spec to the cherry saloon Leicester advertised and therefore reckon that's well over a £10k premium. Could even have been close to £20k), nor STs. But a Turbo saloon or CT is not a bad car...and a leather interior would even look right

 

[AlexG]

There are 2 dynamics in play. Yes BiK on a perceived benefit but more importantly the tax saved through salary sacrifice. Take someone on 120k. The tax rate between 100-120k is 60% as the taper kicks in. So that's 12k tax for 20k. If you take a lease at gross (say 1800 a month) that's 22k a year ish. So now that 12k extra tax goes to the lease instead and your salary is 98k. Yes BiK is 1-2% on the 22k but that is a fraction on the 12k saved in tax. So the BiK tax would have to offset the 12k tax saving (due to sacrifice) which it cannot do unless it was 50%+. Long story short even if BIK was 20% you still save tax just less. Unless you run a ltd company and pay yourself in divis.
[/QUOT

I think that’s wrong - as I understand it the BIK is on the full price of the car - not the lease - so 50% BIK would be a £30k+ tax bill in your example on a £100k car (plus employer’s and employee’s national insurance) taking it to way higher than the lease cost (which shouldn’t be any where near as high as 20k on a 100k Taycan anyway)

 

[TaycanHero]

I think that’s wrong - as I understand it the BIK is on the full price of the car - not the lease - so 50% BIK would be a £30k+ tax bill in your example on a £100k car (plus employer’s and employee’s national insurance) taking it to way higher than the lease cost (which shouldn’t be any where near as high as 20k on a 100k Taycan anyway)

That is correct and precisely why I'm buying an EV... Which will be sold once BIK hits 5%+, which is my prediction come April 2025.

 

[Midlifecrisis]

That is correct and precisely why I'm buying an EV... Which will be sold once BIK hits 5%+, which is my prediction come April 2025.

BIK of 5% on a £100,000 car would be £5000 but you only pay the tax on this - so if your highest rate of tax is 40% then you would pay £2000. There is a calculator on the .gov website. You also only pay for the proportion of the year you have access to the car. So if you got it mid year and had it for 6 months you would pay £1000 for that year.

 

[TaycanHero]

BIK of 5% on a £100,000 car would be £5000 but you only pay the tax on this - so if your highest rate of tax is 40% then you would pay £2000. There is a calculator on the .gov website. You also only pay for the proportion of the year you have access to the car. So if you got it mid year and had it for 6 months you would pay £1000 for that year.

Interesting, I thought the total amount is payable but you are correct.

I pay myself min salary + dividends so presumably will pay 20%.

That means £1k assuming car price is £100k.

Looks like I will be keeping the car then

http://cccfcalculator.hmrc.gov.uk/CCF0.aspx

Sponsored