CT4 fast enough?

[Monkeymouse]

Looks like a minority opinion but I really regret getting the CT4 instead of CT4S and would happily pay the difference now to upgrade. I took a chance when ordering, taking one of the first build slots for the dealer without getting an opportunity to drive one since there were none in the US yet. I traded in a car with 50% more HP and torque than the CT4 in normal driving mode (not just launch control) so it feels a bit sluggish to me in comparison when I try to accelerate quickly onto a highway or on an empty road. For everyday driving it's fine most of the time, but at least once a week I have a situation where I really wished I had more.

I would probably be totally content if this was a SUV or something but for a vehicle that looks so sporty and cost so much, I feels a bit underpowered to me. I will definitely upgrade once the driving range bumps up a bit more in future models.

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[McgR]

Looks like a minority opinion but I really regret getting the CT4 instead of CT4S and would happily pay the difference now to upgrade. I took a chance when ordering, taking one of the first build slots for the dealer without getting an opportunity to drive one since there were none in the US yet. I traded in a car with 50% more HP and torque than the CT4 in normal driving mode (not just launch control) so it feels a bit sluggish to me in comparison when I try to accelerate quickly onto a highway or on an empty road. For everyday driving it's fine most of the time, but at least once a week I have a situation where I really wished I had more.

I would probably be totally content if this was a SUV or something but for a vehicle that looks so sporty and cost so much, I feels a bit underpowered to me. I will definitely upgrade once the driving range bumps up a bit more in future models.

Sorry to hear that. I think most of us choosing a CT 4 did this because of a combination of budget, driving habits and previously owned cars. If your budget allows and you had a much faster car before maybe going back in HP wasn’t a good idea and the 4S would have been the sweet spot in your case.

 

[Jhenson29]

At least in the past it was common for peak torque to be quoted with a corresponding engine speed, which gave a clue to driving characteristics, but I'm not aware of any such data for the Taycan. I've seen a YouTube video that showed the plots of torque and power for a 4S on a 2 axle dyno rolling road, which showed a very (by ICE standards) flat power curve, presumably achieved by the torque delivery being deliberately managed in a way that wouldn't be possible with an ICE.

The Taycan’s torque curve is just basically this:

With power rising linearly where the torque curve is flat and the power being flat where the torque curve tapers off.

Like this:

It’s not so much that Porsche is deliberately manipulating the torque to produce a particular curve as it is the characteristic of electric motors.

Current = charge / time
Voltage = energy / charge
Power = energy / time = current x voltage

charge cancels out ​

Torque = power / speed

(constants ommited as that’s really only important for specific units, not relationships)

In the simplest terms, below base speed, power increases because current is constant and voltage is rising proportional to speed.

Above base speed, power is constant because volts and amps are constant.

And because power is constant, torque has to fall as the speed increases. You can’t keep the torque up without increasing either volts or amps (thus increasing power).

Porsche is only “deliberately” managing the toque curve in the sense that they are controlling the drive for the motor. But that’s kind of just how it is.

Note that there are variations on this. For example, some motors are wound to hit constant power before full volts. In this case, current is reduced while the voltage continues to increase. But the basic principles are the same.

 

[WuffvonTrips]

With power rising linearly where the torque curve is flat and the power being flat where the torque curve tapers off.

Like this:

Porsche is only “deliberately” managing the toque curve in the sense that they are controlling the drive for the motor. But that’s kind of just how it is.

Thanks Jeremy, I'd seen the first graph but the motor power/torque one is new to me.
How does Overboost change the picture?

 

[Jhenson29]

Thanks Jeremy, I'd seen the first graph but the motor power/torque one is new to me.
How does Overboost change the picture?

I couldn’t comment on the specifics for sure as I don’t know how it’s implemented.

But, typically, you allow more current to increase torque. The key is to not damage the motor from excessive heat.

You can typically apply more current than what the motor is rated for, but only for a limited time. It’s a thermal model. Or to think of it in simple terms, just imagine an integration of current over time.

High over current = short time
Low over current = long time

Temps increase above rated values as the current is over rated value and increase at a faster rate the higher the current.

You need to keep the average below the motor’s thermal rating as well as not exceed the peak.

This does also generally degrade motor life, although I would not let that statement concern you as it relates to the Taycan. The amount is small unless the thermals get extreme and, as it’s been discussed elsewhere, electric motor life is very very long.

It’s actually very common to size a motor taking this overcurrent into account. For example, lots of applications rely on over current for accelerating loads and it’s typically fine as long as the continuous load is below the motor’s rating. It would be much more expensive and unnecessary for the motor to be sized to handle the acceleration torque within its full load rated current.

 

[philbur]

Going from a 2015 Cayenne S to a CT4 with equally weighted cars the CT4 feels so much faster. I get the jump to the S but don’t regret it at all. A slower EV will always feel faster than a faster ICE just with the torque curve. If you want to feel more just go find a decent hill and rocket up that. I put my money into rear wheel steering and the clock which comes with the settings knob. Love it! But I also keep buying the slower cars and driving them faster which is my approach.

 

[RPTRXV]

I just got the CT4, I think its an amazing car. After driving it for a month, I wish I had the extra speed of the 4S. That said, I wouldn't trade $17k worth of my options for it, and I don't have the ability to get both - so I'm happy with my choice. Amazing car regardless though and certainly not slow.

Good luck.

 

[@lpher]

I went for CT4 and more options. And for 17k EUR difference its a boat load of them

Same here....and I'm hoping i wont regret it

 

[whitex]

Could it be because Porsche is just playing with the software to have a nice hierarchy of 0-60 times ?
They want to make the difference in advertised 0-60 times between the RWD and 4S big enough to let customers pay the extra price.

I find it also suspicious that the Performance battery plus has the same 0-60 times as the normal battery (while being more heavy) . If you buy the small battery, they reduce the inverter to be just as fast as the one with the bigger battery.
Else the smaller battery version would be faster (less weight) and less people would want to pay 6000 euro extra for a slower car (with more range).

It all feels a lot like marketing to fool the customer.

One thing you might be forgetting is that once the car's power crosses a certain threshold, the initial acceleration, especially on street surfaces, is pretty much traction limited, so the same cars with the only difference being power will perform almost identical in the 0-20mph or even 0-30mph (depending on surface). This has been shown over and over by Tesla community which reverse engineered the CAN buses and is therefore able to get power information at a 100 times a second, then graph it. Those graphs explain why a more powerful EV is not any faster off the line - the simple answer is that the full power cannot be unleashed early on. A Model S Performance vs. Plaid will have similar low end acceleration, especially on street surfaces.

 

[WuffvonTrips]

....typically, you allow more current to increase torque. The key is to not damage the motor from excessive heat.

You can typically apply more current than what the motor is rated for, but only for a limited time. It’s a thermal model.
....
It’s actually very common to size a motor taking this overcurrent into account. For example, lots of applications rely on over current for accelerating loads and it’s typically fine as long as the continuous load is below the motor’s rating. It would be much more expensive and unnecessary for the motor to be sized to handle the acceleration torque within its full load rated current.

Thanks again for the explanation...so I now appreciate the reason for limiting availability of Overboost to just the initial period of launches- though it's a pity that it isn't more usefully available elsewhere, e.g. by the traditional button in the Sport Chrono dial in ICE Porsche's. Maybe it was decided not to implement that because of the issue of over-use resulting in thermal management not always allowing the driver to get the expected boost.

And, in the context of the discussion of CT4 v ICE power delivery, I think it confirms my assumption that any EV (but particularly one with >1 gear) is capable of delivering near-peak (with or without Overboost) power over a greater proportion of its speed range than does an ICE vehicle.

 

[XKSS]

In the UK the opportunity to actually "put your foot down " is SO limited ........ cheeky cameras and awful drivers everywhere - I took delivery of my CT4 a week ago and for myself it's perfect and if I do get the chance to "let it rip" it's faster than I need to go with interim acceleration bursts more than sufficient.
I FULLY get why the feeling that a 4S,Turbo or Turbo S is so intoxicating but it's all very subjective so enjoy whatever it is you run and be safe but certainly don't discount the CT4 on performance grounds - it's a very capable car. Happy Christmas all..

 

[TorAtle]

Considering the speed the Taycan is able to carry through corners, less time is spent accelerating and braking (if you plan to keep your license). The base motor and standard brakes is plenty IMO.

 

[Swissbob]

To me it actually feels a bit slow off the line, which is a bit strange coming from a Tesla, but it’s very responsive and quick once you get it moving. I regularly drive up a mountain road at weekends and I couldn’t really use any more power, even coming out of hairpin bends. It really is brilliant to drive on a windy road and when there’s snow on it, it’s even more fun. To pay an extra 20k chf for a bit more off the line acceleration would be a waste of money to me but if money is no object then who wouldn’t want more speed?

 

[whitex]

As others have mentioned, it depends on what you're switching out of. I test drove a 4S and compared to a Model S I'm driving, it did seem a bit slow on highway acceleration (35mph-80mph, from stand still no issues as I never floor my car from the line either, car too messy and don't want to be colleting my belongings from the back seat). That said, I used to own the second slowest Model S back in 2013 (S60, 0-60mph in 5.1s IIRC) and loved driving it. The only time it seemed slow was after I had a faster Tesla service loaner, then it took about a half a day to stop noticing the difference. That said, I sold my 2013 Model S after less than 2 years and upgraded to the fastest (at the time) one because I really enjoyed the extra power, then upgraded it to even more power. So, when ordering a Taycan, I decided to go for the Turbo because I knew if I order anything less, I will probably be ordering a more powerful one too soon having to eat the added depreciation due to selling the car after less than two years, and having to do all the work like install a radar and laser detector/jammer systems, like I did with the Model S. Everyone is different by the way. My wife drives a Model S75D (0-60mph in 4.2s) and she thinks it's just fine for her, doesn't need (or at least not worth paying for) any faster, even though after driving my Model S she did comment that it "pulls a lot harder".

 

[f1eng]

I just had a quick look comparing the all-the-time power, rather than the couple of seconds overboost power, and price in the UK of the 5 estate car models and using the CT4 as the base I get

CT4 : CT4S : GTS : Turbo : Turbo S

All-time power:-
1 : 1.28 : 1.35 : 1.64 : 1.64

Standard price
1 : 1.08 : 1.28 : 1.44 : 1.71

Meaning, for me, unless some of the included-as-standard options change the balance a lot for the individual the CT4S looks the best buy if one can afford it and the turbo not bad but the GTS and Turbo S only making sense for the included extras, or image.

This is pretty irrelevant though if the CT4 has enough power for the buyer already...

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