December 2021 Delivery

[BobC]

Yes indeed, if anyone has a car held up at the SD port and you find out it's moved to the transport stage, please do notify us here. Obviously we'll do the same. I have a very attentive SA but would just like to be doubly sure we're all still stuck in this together... heh.

I just checked TYD and the status has been updated this morning to "In Transit to Porsche Dealer"!

I'll confirm with my SA a little later this morning, since I don't really trust the web site, but, fingers crossed!

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[BobC]

I just checked TYD and the status has been updated this morning to "In Transit to Porsche Dealer"!

I'll confirm with my SA a little later this morning, since I don't really trust the web site, but, fingers crossed!

My SA sent me a text - received several cars along with mine. They're working on scheduling deliveries for today or tomorrow. I've started the registration and contracting process!

 

[4thPcar]

My SA sent me a text - received several cars along with mine. They're working on scheduling deliveries for today or tomorrow. I've started the registration and contracting process!

thanks for the heads up....calling my SA now.

 

[4thPcar]

My SA sent me a text - received several cars along with mine. They're working on scheduling deliveries for today or tomorrow. I've started the registration and contracting process!

can you share where your dealership is located? Is it one of the 2 here in San Diego?

 

[BobC]

can you share where your dealership is located? Is it one of the 2 here in San Diego?

Porsche Carlsbad

 

[4thPcar]

Porsche Carlsbad

spoke to my SA and mine is waiting on a part, so, no soup for me yet.

 

[HeTakesThatFivePercent]

Bob, congrats and I think you may have been one of the few lucky ones. Still holding out hope for a 2021 delivery but from what I'm hearing transport on NYE doesn't sound too likely.

 

[4thPcar]

Bob, congrats and I think you may have been one of the few lucky ones. Still holding out hope for a 2021 delivery but from what I'm hearing transport on NYE doesn't sound too likely.

My SA is INSISTING that the advice they are getting from Porsche is there is virtually no risk that the tax break is affected by deliveries shortly after the new year and that any tax change is not retroactive to the date of sale. He said this is what Porsche is telling SA's to tell their customers. It contradicts my understanding of how tax law changes work, but I've no other hope to hang on to at this point. I bought the car this year for the tax break, I don't even need a new car, but of course I WANT THIS ONE!

 

[Tooney]

My SA is INSISTING that the advice they are getting from Porsche is there is virtually no risk that the tax break is affected by deliveries shortly after the new year and that any tax change is not retroactive to the date of sale. He said this is what Porsche is telling SA's to tell their customers. It contradicts my understanding of how tax law changes work, but I've no other hope to hang on to at this point. I bought the car this year for the tax break, I don't even need a new car, but of course I WANT THIS ONE!

It is true that the Build Back Better legislation, which ended the current EV tax credit, and replaced it with an EV tax credit with sticker price caps, was not retroactive. It was to take effect on Jan. 1, 2022 (more precisely, tax years commencing after Dec. 31, 2021). So that proposed legislation was indeed "not retroactive to the date of sale." That legislation has not been enacted.

It is not true "that any tax change is not retroactive to the date of sale". Many tax changes over the years have been retroactive. No one, including Porsche, yet knows when or if future tax legislation affecting the current EV tax credit will be enacted, or when such legislation will take effect.

Until such a law is enacted, the existing EV tax credit remains in effect, including for sales which occur in 2022.

 

[Bella]

It is true that the Build Back Better legislation, which ended the current EV tax credit, and replaced it with an EV tax credit with sticker price caps, was not retroactive. It was to take effect on Jan. 1, 2022 (more precisely, tax years commencing after Dec. 31, 2021). So that proposed legislation was indeed "not retroactive to the date of sale." That legislation has not been enacted.

It is not true "that any tax change is not retroactive to the date of sale". Many tax changes over the years have been retroactive. No one, including Porsche, yet knows when or if future tax legislation affecting the current EV tax credit will be enacted, or when such legislation will take effect.

Until such a law is enacted, the existing EV tax credit remains in effect, including for sales which occur in 2022.

I think what is different with this Tax Credit is the fact that people made purchases based on an existing Law and relied on getting the Credit. Even though my car is missing the deadline of 2021 by 1-3 days I expect I can use the credit on my 2022 Tax year. Anyway just saying that makes me feel better.

 

[dardleflom]

Me & My SA:

Me: Hey the car arrived in San Diego last night
SA: No, I show it as still on the way from LA
Me: Look, there are about a dozen obsessed owners watching this boat and they obviously have better technology than you do. The boat is in San Diego now
SA: Ok, let me check
Me: (waiting)
SA: Ok, I still don't show it in San Diego
Me: Look, this is about getting the tax credit...
SA: There is no change to tax credit. Porsche would have issued a notice to us sales agents
Me: Again, there are people on the TaycanForum that spend a lot of time researching this, and I believe them
SA: Ok….well...
Me: Look my focus is on getting the car this week, assuming there are no missing parts...
SA: Let me check that for you.
Me: (waiting)
SA: I just checked with (inaudible) department. THERE ARE NO QUALITY ISSUES WITH THE CARS

OK finally I got some info I can use!

To be fair, the argument that “random internet people” believe something about a tax law’s impending change is not really that compelling.

And I’ve read all the threads on here about this. The reality is nobody knows what’s going to happen, including people on this forum who ardently believe otherwise.

 

[HeTakesThatFivePercent]

It hasn't been my impression that people on this forum ardently believe they know what's going to happen. Just that they are hoping to get cars in 2021, as we know for sure that we will get the credit. For 2022 purchases, we know there's at least a good chance we will not get the credit. Or is that just me?

In any case, I'm now with Bella - resigned to my '22 fate and let the chips fall as they may, etc.

 

[ithinkmac]

I already gave up on all hopes for a 2022 credit.

When Congress was doing the Section 179 revisions year over year (a few years back before it became permanent). All the changes during the year were retroactive.

I think if they pass the bill mid year or even end of 2022. they'll make it retro to Jan 1st. I'm not an expert, but I play one on the interweb.

-ThinkMac-

 

[Prit]

I already gave up on all hopes for a 2022 credit.

When Congress was doing the Section 179 revisions year over year (a few years back before it became permanent). All the changes during the year were retroactive.

I think if they pass the bill mid year or even end of 2022. they'll make it retro to Jan 1st. I'm not an expert, but I play one on the interweb.

-ThinkMac-

I think it depends on cost. The biggest holdup is cost and why provide a credit if someone has already bought an EV. The goal is to influence EV purchases not reward folks that already purchased. Here is my take:

Scenario 1: Taycan credit disqualification saves $X , and making the credit retroactive adds $XX cost. In this scenario, they will NOT make the credit retroactive because there is a net cost to do so + no need to persuade (reward) folks that have already bought.

Scenario 2: Cost savings from Taycan disqualification exceeds what it would cost to make bill retroactive. In this case, making the bill retro will save $Xx and the added costs to make it retro will cost $X. In this case, it makes sense to make the bill retro.

I don't think Scenario 1 will save because Taycan volume is too low relative to other cheaper EVs. I probably missed some scenarios. In any case, they will do what's cheaper.

There are probably some additional administrative costs if bill isn't retroactive because tax filers will be confused about dates and make mistakes, etc.

I used Taycan analysis vs retro in this explanation but it's really "will it cost us to be retro or save us to be retro?" and that should drive their decision to go retro or not.

 

[Tooney]

I used Taycan analysis vs retro in this explanation but it's really "will it cost us to be retro or save us to be retro?" and that should drive their decision to go retro or not.

The EV portion of the Build Back Better bill was intended to expand EV tax credits - more money to more people - as well as reward EV purchases for certain US manufactured EVs. One provision of the EV section terminated the existing tax credit (which includes Taycan purchases).

The entire EV section had a single effective date. The EV section increases govt outflows (we call that costs). I believe the proponents of the bill are focused on "doing more good things for more people", thus making an effective date as early as possible.

Impact of retroactive date on relatively few "rich" people who bought high dollar value cars (particularly imported cars) is likely to be negligible consideration for legislators.

--yet another purported internet expert

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