Depreciation

[f1eng]

But I find in hard to believe used car buyers will prefer an ICE car that costs over 10x (my figures compared to my M2) to run than a used EV - just because it will only do 250-300 miles range.

IMO it is truly ridiculous how range has become such an obsession of people banging on about EVs.

Stupid even.

The maximum range of my car is of even the remotest interest about 1% of the time and for the other 99% of the time being able to “fill the tank” whilst asleep at home is spectacularly more useful and relaxing than stopping every couple of hours for a drink and top up charge (I have done this on 2 days so far since I bought mine)

Both my Ferrari and my old Merc have a shorter range than the Taycan if driven as they deserve, my Prius PHEV has a 500 mile range and this has quite literally never been a glimmer of actual benefit.

But that is for my use.

Sponsored

 

[NJ-Taycan]

I suspect it will actually be the opposite with the Macan GTS. 2022’s with low miles are listed and selling at close to MSRP. Heck, 2 year old GTS models are selling (not sitting) at $80k, a 15% loss in two years which is normal and to be expected in regular market conditions. Now of course that’s not what a dealer would offer you on trade, so let’s assume a 25% loss in two years. But that’s not 6 months. Thank God I paid MSRP for my Taycan and not the $30k over sticker they were asking at the time. I would have been buried in the car….

The other factor will be that once the Macan switches to EV the ICE cars, especially the last two years of top GTS models will become harder to come by as you won’t be able to replace them with new ICE orders, and I suspect their depreciation curve will slow down even more. No please don’t misinterpret what I am saying here, ICE Macan GTS’s will not become the next air cooled 911 unicorns on the used market, but it will impact the depreciation curve. Same is going to happen with the last ICE 718’s, especially the 4.0 liter cars. And of course my Spyder and GT4’s will be rock solid in value.

As the next generation Taycan, Macan and 718 EV’s hit the market, their technology enhancements will further suppress the used values of the Gen 1 Taycans. Most likely the opposite will happen to the last Macan GTS ICE cars.

Now, of course I have to factor in some ICE maintenance on the Macan over two years but the first maintenance is free with the car and the second and third will be minimal, under $1,000.00 at my Indy shop.

I agree 100% that you can’t look at cars as an investment, but you can consider the amount of depreciation you wish to sustain as part of the ownership and enjoyment experience.

Here are two depreciation models which look very real to me:

My 2022 Taycan CT4S $155k MSRP which likely becomes a $96k retail car in two years. Depreciation at 40% and a loss of $60,000.00.

My inbound 2023 Macan GTS $106k MSRP which is likely becomes an $85k retail car in two years. Depreciation of 20% and a loss of $21,200.00.

It will be interesting to watch how the recent Porsche MSRP increases influence used values on both of these used models.

Not taking trades, just anticipated retail values. Yes we can talk all we want about old car trades and what happened in the past. I am currently on new car #57 and new Porsche #12 and have seen it all. But never have I seen such an extreme and market influenced depreciation curve like the EV market and my Taycan.

Again, not promoting doom but hopefully opening the eyes of some Taycan owners and potential buyers before they enter the market with their hard earned dollars. I ran a lot of examples prior to purchasing my Taycan and never factored the rapid and technology influenced depreciation. If I were purchasing a Taycan today, I would want a large 10% or more discount to buy one new. With the higher interest rates and lack of the government $7,500.00 tax credit, a used 6,000 mile example like my car would be the way to go.

So, if your purchasing a Taycan right now, use this information to your advantage and take note of days in inventory for these cars.

One final thought. When I ordered my 2015 Macan Turbo for $85k. I drove that car 77,000 amazing miles and sold it fives years later, just prior to the pandemic for $42k. A 50% depreciation and loss of $43,000.00 for usage and enjoyment. But not a $75k loss in two years.

The new Macan GTS will be my daily driver. I would rather put that extra money saved into another Porsche sports car, rather than just watch is disappear before my eyes. Maybe a 981 Cayman NA to keep the Spyder company and for rainy days

 

[Donlam]

You don't lost anything if you don't sell it. I believe every Porsche is drive able after 10 years time and I would still driven a Porsche then.

 

[Fish Fingers]

IMO it is truly ridiculous how range has become such an obsession of people banging on about EVs.

Stupid even.

The maximum range of my car is of even the remotest interest about 1% of the time and for the other 99% of the time being able to “fill the tank” whilst asleep at home is spectacularly more useful and relaxing than stopping every couple of hours for a drink and top up charge (I have done this on 2 days so far since I bought mine)

Both my Ferrari and my old Merc have a shorter range than the Taycan if driven as they deserve, my Prius PHEV has a 500 mile range and this has quite literally never been a glimmer of actual benefit.

But that is for my use.

I bought my Taycan in Aug 2021.
It's now done 14k miles.
So far I have charged it 3 times in the wild.

Once when I got it to try out DC charging.
Once when it was touch and go about getting home above 10% SoC.
And 2 weeks ago when they opened a huge new EV charging station next to my office. Thought, I would have a coffee and try it out.

That said, we have used my wife's petrol car for a few longer journeys over that time.

On the subject of EV depreciation, this was a very recent article from a leading UK car magazine...
https://www.whatcar.com/news/the-10-slowest-depreciating-electric-cars/n24528

 

[Deleted member 6348]

I put 26k miles on my Taycan 4S in 8 months. Yes, that’s a lot of road tripping and I charged almost exclusively on EA chargers. My takeaway from the experience? Charging speed is more important than absolute range. The Taycan’s charging curve is gloriously aggressive. I frequently would be the last to arrive and first to leave from a charging location.

 

[Marmolata]

I bought my Taycan in Aug 2021.
It's now done 14k miles.
So far I have charged it 3 times in the wild.

Once when I got it to try out DC charging.
Once when it was touch and go about getting home above 10% SoC.
And 2 weeks ago when they opened a huge new EV charging station next to my office. Thought, I would have a coffee and try it out.

That said, we have used my wife's petrol car for a few longer journeys over that time.

On the subject of EV depreciation, this was a very recent article from a leading UK car magazine...
https://www.whatcar.com/news/the-10-slowest-depreciating-electric-cars/n24528

spolier alert:

ha ha, as I got to number one I realized the Taycan wasnt going to be on the list....then....??????

 

[Archimedes]

I suspect it will actually be the opposite with the Macan GTS. 2022’s with low miles are listed and selling at close to MSRP. Heck, 2 year old GTS models are selling (not sitting) at $80k, a 15% loss in two years which is normal and to be expected in regular market conditions. Now of course that’s not what a dealer would offer you on trade, so let’s assume a 25% loss in two years. But that’s not 6 months. Thank God I paid MSRP for my Taycan and not the $30k over sticker they were asking at the time. I would have been buried in the car….

The other factor will be that once the Macan switches to EV the ICE cars, especially the last two years of top GTS models will become harder to come by as you won’t be able to replace them with new ICE orders, and I suspect their depreciation curve will slow down even more. No please don’t misinterpret what I am saying here, ICE Macan GTS’s will not become the next air cooled 911 unicorns on the used market, but it will impact the depreciation curve. Same is going to happen with the last ICE 718’s, especially the 4.0 liter cars. And of course my Spyder and GT4’s will be rock solid in value.

As the next generation Taycan, Macan and 718 EV’s hit the market, their technology enhancements will further suppress the used values of the Gen 1 Taycans. Most likely the opposite will happen to the last Macan GTS ICE cars.

Now, of course I have to factor in some ICE maintenance on the Macan over two years but the first maintenance is free with the car and the second and third will be minimal, under $1,000.00 at my Indy shop.

I agree 100% that you can’t look at cars as an investment, but you can consider the amount of depreciation you wish to sustain as part of the ownership and enjoyment experience.

Here are two depreciation models which look very real to me:

My 2022 Taycan CT4S $155k MSRP which likely becomes a $96k retail car in two years. Depreciation at 40% and a loss of $60,000.00.

My inbound 2023 Macan GTS $106k MSRP which is likely becomes an $85k retail car in two years. Depreciation of 20% and a loss of $21,200.00.

It will be interesting to watch how the recent Porsche MSRP increases influence used values on both of these used models.

Not taking trades, just anticipated retail values. Yes we can talk all we want about old car trades and what happened in the past. I am currently on new car #57 and new Porsche #12 and have seen it all. But never have I seen such an extreme and market influenced depreciation curve like the EV market and my Taycan.

Again, not promoting doom but hopefully opening the eyes of some Taycan owners and potential buyers before they enter the market with their hard earned dollars. I ran a lot of examples prior to purchasing my Taycan and never factored the rapid and technology influenced depreciation. If I were purchasing a Taycan today, I would want a large 10% or more discount to buy one new. With the higher interest rates and lack of the government $7,500.00 tax credit, a used 6,000 mile example like my car would be the way to go.

So, if your purchasing a Taycan right now, use this information to your advantage and take note of days in inventory for these cars.

One final thought. When I ordered my 2015 Macan Turbo for $85k. I drove that car 77,000 amazing miles and sold it fives years later, just prior to the pandemic for $42k. A 50% depreciation and loss of $43,000.00 for usage and enjoyment. But not a $75k loss in two years.

The new Macan GTS will be my daily driver. I would rather put that extra money saved into another Porsche sports car, rather than just watch is disappear before my eyes. Maybe a 981 Cayman NA to keep the Spyder company and for rainy days

You’re a baller man. You should write a newsletter.

 

[tchavei]

Many years ago I ended up with a custom order 911 instead of an Acura NSX, purely because the sales guy judged me to not be a serious customer just trying to joyride, so I went across the street to Porsche, test drove a 911, ordered one on the spot.

Dealers around here started to ignore customers simply because they had more customers than cars to sell - no need to put any effort in the sale, so why bother? I had Taycan deposit with one dealer, where the SA was very good, attentive. That SA left after a year, the next assigned SA didn’t really care about some undetermined future sale, he was mostly interested in selling what he had on the lot or incoming soon. As soon as he realized I was set on waiting for allocation, he stopped answering questions, paying much attention. To be clear, I would check in via email every 2 months, maybe ask a question or 2 at the same time, so it’s not like I was bombarding him with communications. At another dealer, similar story, except no change in SA, they just lost interest after a year.

In 2021, one of the dealers in my area declined to even take my contact info to put on a waitlist, because "our waitlists are too long already". They didn't see me, know anything about me, other than what I told them over the phone, which was "I am in the market to buy a Taycan Turbo CT, don't need a test drive, willing to order and put down deposit today, or if you have a car that's close, I will buy it today". The fact that they didn't even care to take my contact information does not mean they judged me not serious, as I offered money without asking for anything up front. The simple fact of the matter was they just didn't want to do the work gathering more customers, since they already had more customers than they expected to have cars.

What do all of the above have in common, well, try put yourself in a SA's shoes. During normal times, they profile customers to decide which customers are worth spending time on (i.e. they are likely to buy) and which customers are just window shopping or joyriding. By doing that, they can optimize the amount of work they put in to get money. Unfortunately this means they will occasionally lose a real customer, but the net time savings may still be worth it to them (e.g. save 500 hours of work per year, lose one $5,000 commission - saves working for $10 per hour). Now add to this the recent pandemic shortages, and the SA logic is even more obvious - every cars sells itself whether or not they bother acquiring and curating more customer relationships, therefore there is absolutely no incentive to talk to new customers - it's time wasted from the SA point of view. Of course that point of view is shortsighted, as times change, and at some point they will have to start working for their money again, but for now, no need to talk to customers, even if they roll in a brand new Rolls Royce.

Want to get attention from a dealer in a shortage situation? Call them and tell them you're willing to pay $50K ADM for a Taycan - that just might get them to pay attention to you, as they probably don't have too many customers like that. Chances are you're moving up to the head of the waitlist queue.

You probably nailed it. The local dealer is 1 mile away. I'm totally local to them. Could be the reason of "this guy probably just wants a joy ride".

The other dealership being 440km away, the SA must have thought "This guy called, gave a configurator code, booked a test drive, actually grabbed his keys, drove all the way to me in a day notice. He's probably really interested."

 

[annieland]

IMO it is truly ridiculous how range has become such an obsession of people banging on about EVs.

Stupid even.

The maximum range of my car is of even the remotest interest about 1% of the time and for the other 99% of the time being able to “fill the tank” whilst asleep at home is spectacularly more useful and relaxing than stopping every couple of hours for a drink and top up charge (I have done this on 2 days so far since I bought mine)

Both my Ferrari and my old Merc have a shorter range than the Taycan if driven as they deserve, my Prius PHEV has a 500 mile range and this has quite literally never been a glimmer of actual benefit.

But that is for my use.

Thank you!!! This has been driving me crazy as a newbie to the EV world! So much talk about range! Every time I go to read an article about a new EV, or a discussion or review, it's range range range. My teenagers and I were playing with online configurators last night for Teslas, Porsche, and looking at the car auction sites (Saturday night family fun time here)... and my son (who got his license less than a year ago and drives to Taco bell and back) starts asking about the range stuff. I'm like, just stop.

It's fascinating to me as there's this whole contingent who is super fixated on range numbers and I wish it wouldn't be the focus of the future of EV's. Sure, I haven't had my car long, but I've yet to look at the battery display on the car. I don't even know where it is! Know what's more interesting to me? The fact that I don't have to get into a freezing SUV in the morning in the dead of winter to see that my husband left 20 miles worth of gas in the tank. I wake up to a full "tank of gas" every morning now! In my house, that is a freaking GIFT.

I don't want to be crude, but this range stuff strikes me as mostly men (I presume) swinging something and talking irrelevant numbers. There is an infinite number of things to appreciate about cars, ICE or EV, and here we are boasting about the size of our batteries. Only people who drive crappy or boring cars (which I've driven plenty) brag about their MPG. My best friend who is over the moon about me finally getting my Porsche drives an Escalade, and we just have a good laugh about her MPG. But she loves it! Who cares!

 

[tchavei]

I'm pretty sure I said it before somewhere in this forum. Range is a non issue for 95% of the population.

Every driver I see here at the gas station is putting 10-30€ worth of gas.

Why not fill it up?

A) most people don't have the luck of having a good salary and live day to day to make the best out of it. Food and utility bills take precedence over filling a gas tank.

B) even if most people could afford filling up their tanks, with the gas prices fluctuating every week, who wants to fill their tank at €1.80/litre when next week it can be at €1.46/litre?

So in practical terms, most cars circulating right now, have a range of 100km albeit "they're capable of 1000km on a full tank".

Lithium technology has somewhat stagnated in the past 3 years. We're all waiting for solid state which might take a decade to be widely adopted. The only path to massification is through fast charging capabilities and a solid charging network. Nail those two and range becomes irrelevant.

Portugal was ranked 4th place last year (or 2021, can't remember) with most chargers in Europe and yet I say: it's not enough! We need more!

When every single gas station has 4 working DC chargers (instead of 2 which most have nowadays) then I'll say "it's a good start".

Charging has to be widespread like pancakes. And not AC. I mean DC 50kwh+.

AC charging docks are just glorified "free parking spaces". One car can stay there anywhere between 5h and 12h whilst no one else can charge up.

My two cents.

 

[MartyMeatball]

HI all,

I know the used car market has gone down a lot lately, but I have been looking around at used Taycans and are seeing 2020-2021 Turbo S pop up in the 120-135K range.

That seems like a huge depreciation, especially for a Porsche, which I have read are among of the best at holding their value. Just wanted to get some feedback on if you guys think it would slow down on some of these Turbo S cars or just continue this rapid depreciation.

For reference, this is the car I was looking at: 2020 Certified Turbo S

The reliability problems are certainly a part of that. If the car were more reliable and didn't have the litany of problems it has then its resale value would hold up better.

 

[whan]

As referenced in my previous post, the best way to expect the Taycan depreciation curve will go is just to look at Panameras prior to covid. There are a few opposing factors unique to EVs that will take time to play out (lower maintenance and general EV demand a positive, fast advancement in EVs a negative) so not factoring them in is probably the smarter call until things pan out

As with Panameras, higher spec Taycans or higher trims will suffer worse depreciation as a % of MSRP, simply because there is more of a market for a used $75k RWD (~30% off $105k MSRP) than a used $135k Turbo S (~30% off $185k MSRP)

 

[Icey4s]

Loved reading through this and appreciate all the insight from everyone! The reason I have been researching this is due to my 4S getting totaled out a few weeks ago.

Bought it May 22 from Porsche Chicago. 2021 4S certified with 4K miles, it has a $150K MSRP and I got it for $140k.

Insurance is currently trying to pay out $109K and I have sent the sticker in hopes of them bumping it up. I do understand, in the current market, $109K is probably very fair but we’ll see.

Once this is taken care of, looking at a 20-21 Turbo S for a replacement. Just curious is a 20 TS for say $125K now, would drop next year to $100K say.

 

[Tomato]

For those who don't care about depreciation because you're planning to keep the car forever, remember most insurance policies will only pay ACV actual cash value which factors in the depreciation unless you have a RCV replacement cost policy.

 

[tchavei]

For those who don't care about depreciation because you're planning to keep the car forever, remember most insurance policies will only pay ACV actual cash value which factors in the depreciation unless you have a RCV replacement cost policy.

My usual insurance is MRSP for first 3 years and then whatever the market dictates. Thankfully never totalled a car but there's a first always.

Sponsored