EU/UK: Ongoing navigation issues

[ovonrein]

This nav issue is costing Porsche AG some big bucks.

Is it really? Yes, this is an active thread but the people participating isn't that large and the people with problems as bad as yours are fewer still. As I reported from my recent 4 legs thru Benelux, crashed all the time on leg #1, fine the other 3 legs.

What bothers me is the unwillingness by all parties of any attempts of systematic debugging. What makes your and @Bognar67's cars so bad? What is different to the next Taycan on their used sales lot? Why not give it to you for a spin (instead of some Macan or 911 loaner) to see whether you can crash it? With and without your profile. If you cannot make it crash, slowly migrate your car (back or forth) towards the good car until the problem goes away. That way, one can zero in on the problem. It will probably turn out to be some incompatibility somewhere.

I assume you have eliminated PID from the equation.

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[ovonrein]

that the replacement of the "central computer"

We can learn from the PDF @Bognar67 attached earlier that "central computer" without a doubt refers to the PCM. And anyone who ever experienced a faulty memory stick on their PC knows that that hardware fault is virtually indistinguishable from a software fault. None of the posts of @Bognar67 or @Jasper4S rule out a possible hardware fault.

 

[Matt-Taycan]

We can learn from the PDF @Bognar67 attached earlier that "central computer" without a doubt refers to the PCM.

Yes i agree. I was being careful to quote and emphasise exactly as it is on my workshop printout. The details start to matter when customers appear to be getting so much pushback from Porsche themselves

 

[Tooney]

My car is back at the dealership. The ongoing navigation issues are related to the newly 3G connection I have (instead of LTE). They’ll fix that and order a brand-new PCM unit to resolve the issue.

Since we all suspect it’s a software problem, but a new PCM fixes it, I believe the Taycan 1.2 PCM has hardware improvements or maybe different parts of suppliers. J1.2 doesn’t have this problem, and a new unit appears to be Porsche’s solution. What are your thoughts?

In later posts you wrote that reinstalling 3885 fixed the 3G vs LTE issue, but they are still going to replace your PCM hardware. Why is the PCM hardware going to be replaced?

 

[Jasper4S]

We can learn from the PDF @Bognar67 attached earlier that "central computer" without a doubt refers to the PCM. And anyone who ever experienced a faulty memory stick on their PC knows that that hardware fault is virtually indistinguishable from a software fault. None of the posts of @Bognar67 or @Jasper4S rule out a possible hardware fault.

Okay, so here’s the main point: everything kicked off back in July. And it is mix of MY21-MY24 models. Starting at same an a mix of age and trims. This can't be hardware.

New PCM units likely have hardware changes, such as more RAM, to address software issues.

 

[Jasper4S]

In later posts you wrote that reinstalling 3885 fixed the 3G vs LTE issue, but they are still going to replace your PCM hardware. Why is the PCM hardware going to be replaced?

Last attempt to fix the navigation issues resulted in a communication module with issues, hence the 3g and no internet. A fresh install solves that issue for the coming 5 weeks. New PCM is sold to me as the final solution.

 

[Jasper4S]

New PCM is the solution Porsche AG provides to dealerships. However, before dealerships can order the PCM as a warranty item, all software updates must be applied, and the issue must be present. Since November, there have been multiple updates, and every time I had an outdated software version. Now, we finally have the right timing.

At least, that’s what I’m told. It seems that before dealerships can incur significant costs, they must follow certain procedures and complete other tasks before proceeding. Again, the timing was right yesterday, so I get the new PCM

 

[Tooney]

Last attempt to fix the navigation issues resulted in a communication module with issues, hence the 3g and no internet. A fresh install solves that issue for the coming 5 weeks. New PCM is sold to me as the final solution.

It will be interesting to see what happens. An AI bot reviewed the nav problem thread in German PFF forum and replied that it found no posts about PCM/central computer replacements as a solution.

 

[chun]

New PCM units likely have hardware changes, such as more RAM, to address software issues.

They don't. It's same hardware. Different providers for the memory modules though. MY26 may or may not have an extra chip to handle dolby atmos, but its more than likely not on the PCM PCB but on the sound board.

People can simulate a PCM replacement by resetting to default settings the car. It will wipe everything, and the navigation will work just fine with the planner for say 800-2000km.

From the info I have and communication i had, I'd be shocked if Porsche AG actually approves PCM replacement without the original PCM actually being bricked - and they definitely don't recommend this as a solution.

I do hope it works for you, but it likely will do no more than just be a temporary stop gap solution.

The issue is with whatever caching they are doing, it's not related to ram being broken or insufficent - think of a browser cache.

 

[Bognar67]

They don't. It's same hardware. Different providers for the memory modules though. MY26 may or may not have an extra chip to handle dolby atmos, but its more than likely not on the PCM PCB but on the sound board.

People can simulate a PCM replacement by resetting to default settings the car. It will wipe everything, and the navigation will work just fine with the planner for say 800-2000km.

From the info I have and communication i had, I'd be shocked if Porsche AG actually approves PCM replacement without the original PCM actually being bricked - and they definitely don't recommend this as a solution.

I do hope it works for you, but it likely will do no more than just be a temporary stop gap solution.

The issue is with whatever caching they are doing, it's not related to ram being broken or insufficent - think of a browser cache.

I am afraid this is the case 100% that means no real/final solution.
Before the Update 'try' I have received a procedure that seems 'cache emptying' that has worked for a while, ca. 3-400 kms than the continuous freezing again.

The procedure I have been offered by smart mobility:

• Remove the user from PCM (Porsche Communication Management)
• Set the privacy mode on
• Switch off the ignition and lock the vehicle for 15 minutes
• Unlock the vehicle and deactivate privacy mode
• Re-establish remote access by adding a new user in PCM

After the above procedure I lost the Bose settings and the favorite digital radio stations and maybe some more things I do not remember exactly.

 

[gtm]

I will just throw this out there. On my 2023 Taycan, U.S. car, the PCM would intermittently freeze. The fix was supposed to be to update the PCM to 3885. In order to do this the tech had to update 8 additional systems/modules. Each was listed on the repair order and was supposedly necessary for 3885 to function correctly. Is it possible that many of the European cars updated to 3885 have not had other modules/systems updated and module conflicts remain? My issue was with the PCM freezing not navigation, but freezing and rebooting is common to both. Kind of hard to believe that Porsche would authorize updating to 3885 and not issue complete instructions but not much about the nav problems in Europe make much sense. The length of time this has been going on is nuts. My sympathies to all of you suffering.

 

[ovonrein]

the tech had to update 8 additional systems/modules. Each was listed on the repair order and was supposedly necessary for 3885 to function correctly. Is it possible that many of the European cars updated to 3885 have not had other modules/systems updated and module conflicts remain?

Entirely possible, I would say, since the TSB attached by @Bognar67 makes no mention whatever of other dependencies. Do you still have that repair order? 8 dependencies is a lot and it would be weird Porsche omitting to mention that in Europe.

Since November, there have been multiple updates, and every time I had an outdated software version.

Here we have some evidence that one can update plenty more modules. But it also seems that doing those updates has not made 3885 navigate any better.

before dealerships can order the PCM as a warranty item, all software updates must be applied, and the issue must be present.

That is a reasonable policy in your interest as much as theirs. They don't wanna replace hardware if the fault is caused by outdated software. I am just surprised that it took Leusden until November to carry out all these software updates after you reported the problem in July. Software updates are relatively painless.

it is mix of MY21-MY24 models.

Ok, I failed to appreciate that you own multiple Taycans. If you get the same problems in all of them at the same time in July, what happened to all of them in July? (OTA updates don't typically arrive at different cars at the same time.)

 

[Dabz]

I've just booked mine in (middle of March was the earliest when they had a loan car) - service dept seemed surprised to hear what it's doing so either they've genuinely not seen this issue before (doubtful because I've raised it with them previously) or they're good at bluffing. They'll try a software update first.

I guess that's progress compared to last time I phoned when they said they'd never heard of anyone having the issue before so would raise it with Porsche and let me know...and 3 months later here we are having to chase and book in

 

[chun]

I will just throw this out there. On my 2023 Taycan, U.S. car, the PCM would intermittently freeze. The fix was supposed to be to update the PCM to 3885. In order to do this the tech had to update 8 additional systems/modules. Each was listed on the repair order and was supposedly necessary for 3885 to function correctly. Is it possible that many of the European cars updated to 3885 have not had other modules/systems updated and module conflicts remain? My issue was with the PCM freezing not navigation, but freezing and rebooting is common to both. Kind of hard to believe that Porsche would authorize updating to 3885 and not issue complete instructions but not much about the nav problems in Europe make much sense. The length of time this has been going on is nuts. My sympathies to all of you suffering.

I have had mine get all ECU updates and the issue reappeared in December. It was fine for a couple months before that

 

[FredC057]

Hi all, I was not following this thread completely as I didn't had the issue.
But I'm back from a short ski trip and the navigation gave us a hard time but not exactly the same problem as the OP.

The navigation would work for a while and then I would receive a message saying charging the map as I often have during long trips but the map is then a black screen and when it comes back, there is no more nav. I have to wait a bit and reenter the destination.
I did it 20 times on the way down, continued even after the car was stopped for a while. I had to reboot via the 2 fingers from time to time.
And yesterday, on the way back home, it was sometimes crashing every 5 min then ok for 10 then crash again.
A friend had Waze at the same time because we missed an exit at first but then the preheating of the battery was not functioning and the first stops were longer....
I thought it was maybe because we were crossing Switzerland but we had the same after in France and it only stopped when we were around Luxembourg.
The last 2 hours went fine without any crashes anymore.

What is the consensus here? Should I contact the Porsche assistance then at least I have a replacement car under warranty or should I contact the dealer and see if there some some updates.
What is the latest update and can I check it myself in the PCM?

I'm travelling again in 2 weeks but this time with my wife and she'll be less calm then my friends if this keeps on happening.

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