Malfunctioning Charge Port

[daveo4EV]

thanks - appreciate the information. Interestingly, I spoke to Clipper Creek today about a charger for our second home. They were adamant that the Taycan cannot charge at the 11kw rate and their 50A charger is overkill and (my words - effectively useless) for a Taycan. They said multiple times that the Taycan's ability to charge at the higher rate is unproven. I don't mind spending a little more for the higher capacity considering we may purchase other cars at some point which could potentially accept a higher charge rate but it surprised me that Clipper Creek was actively discouraging an upsell.

they are covering their ass - several people on this forum and others have charged with 60 amp clipper creek chargers…and others.

there are screen shots of Taycan’s charging at more than 9.6 kW on this very forum - link shortly.

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[daveo4EV]

here is the original post where we’ve documented the Taycan’s 11 kW charge rate.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...-charger-48-amps-not-max-9-6-kw-40-amps.1793/

 

[daveo4EV]

here is the screen shot of my 2020 Taycan charging from my 100/80 amp Tesla chargers - note the 10.xx kW charge rate (more than 9.6 kW)

it’s charging at 48 amps (60 amp breaker)

 

[daveo4EV]

They were adamant that the Taycan cannot charge at the 11kw rate and their 50A charger is overkill and (my words - effectively useless) for a Taycan.

Porsche documents the 11 kW charging rate for other regions (Europe, China, etc…) and they don't ship a different onboard charger in North America - its the same hardware world wide (just like the 19.2 kW charger for North America is actually the 22 kW charge they ship to other regions) - it conceivable Porsche could "software" limit the North American in-vehicle charging hardware but so far that don't appear to be doing that.

I still stand by my reason that Porsche low balls the charging rate is that they don't want to have to explain to customers that they:

1. do not offer a 60/48 amp charger (11 kw)
2. it won't be mobile
3. complexity of why someone would care

it will be interesting to see when Porsche ships the 19.2 kW version of the PMCC and you plug it into a non 19.2 kW Taycan and watch it charge at 11 kW…how porsche will explain that.

NOTE: for those playing along at home - Audi also documents the eTron (SUV) maximum charge rate as 9.6 kW in North America - they ship the exact same part number for an EVSE (even though it has an Audi logo sticker on it) - and guess what happens if you plug a 2021 eTron into a 60/48 amp EVSE - it also charges at 11 kW…

this part is standard across the VW/Audi/Porsche manufacturing parts bin - they couldn't limit the Taycan to 9.6 kW even if they wanted to - they would have to source an entirely different AC/DC converter for the onboard charging hardware - and track all the related supply chain differences - and do that only for the North American models.

@Toby Pennycuff is your Taycan still charging @ 48 amp from your ClipperCreek HCS-60?

 

[Mr Hockey]

just sharing a few updates / new info.

While the car did charge nicely once after getting it back from the dealer, we ran into the same issue again where the right port gives us a "right port...inoperative" message. After trying multiple times, we called Electrify America and the situation becomes even more cloudy:

- after several attempts to get the service to work, despite the PCM showing a right port inoperable message, the EA service began to work and charged the car. Not sure why it worked this time when it sure wouldn't work last weekend.

- Each person at EA gives different answers as to what should be happening, Including at one location they insisted certain stations were working while we sat there and saw the screen said "Unavailable". Nothing like being on a long distance trip and unable to locate a working station. Thankfully, we had enough juice to drive 50 miles to the next one (see above bullet).

- got home and went to charge up at the local EA station but again had to endure several failed connections.

- the EA folks told us there are several manufacturers of their stations and each can work a little differently - nice to know !

- we have a 21 model which is supposed to be automatically recognized by the EA stations. Very rarely does this work, as advertised. We are almost always forced to go through the Charging NA app and initiate a charge. Sometimes it works and sometimes it does not.

- we've now run into multiple stations where the Charging NA app does not even show the charging station we're trying to use. How can anyone charge if the app won't show the station ID ???? Thankfully, when this has happened, we've spent five minutes messing around with the app and then, miraculously, the correct station appears as a choice.

I could go on but this just shouldn't be this difficult. Not to mention, we're scared to death that the next charge will fail too.....

In terms of a charging station for home, the Clipper Creek folks insist the Taycan cannot really handle 11kw / 48 amp service. They claim, while the assertion is prevalent on these message boards, its not truly accurate. Clipper Creek insists that notion comes from the European system where they use three phase charging at a higher kw rate BUT that combination effectively equates to the US 9KW rate at 40amps. I'm no electrician but its an interesting answer from them. They are insistent that the Porsche charger delivers the max load the Taycan can accept on the J1772 port. What I can say is that I haven't found a Porsche rep yet who will comment on any of this.....So, we're left to wonder.......

We're having a higher capacity Clipper Creek unit installed at one home and we'll compare charging rates against the Porsche unit at a second home - maybe that will be the definitive answer....

 

[Jhenson29]

In terms of a charging station for home, the Clipper Creek folks insist the Taycan cannot really handle 11kw / 48 amp service. They claim, while the assertion is prevalent on these message boards, its not truly accurate. Clipper Creek insists that notion comes from the European system where they use three phase charging at a higher kw rate

That’s interesting. I thought it came from people actually doing it, but I have the 19.2 so I have no first hand experience here. If the car is charging at more more than 9.6kW, then Porsche is allowing it. It’s worth noting that even if some cars can do it now, it may not be a good idea to expect it on future cars. Porsche could change it to 9.6 in future cars at any time, as that’s what the spec says.

 

[daveo4EV]

several people on the forum
actually charge with 60 amp or greater chargers and get 11 kw - screen shots have been posted

 

[Jhenson29]

several people on the forum
actually charge with 60 amp or greater chargers and get 11 kw - screen shots have been posted

But do you agree, even if that’s the case, Porsche could change that on new cars at any time?

 

[Genau]

But do you agree, even if that’s the case, Porsche could change that on new cars at any time?

From some details @daveo4EV and others have posted, it appears that Porsche (and Audi and possibly other VAG brands that share the EVSE design) would have to go to extra effort and expense to design a special version of EVSE for North America that removes the 11 kW capability explicitly provided in other markets. That does not seem likely to me.

 

[daveo4EV]

But do you agree, even if that’s the case, Porsche could change that on new cars at any time?

yes Porsche has not documented this for _ANY_ north american Taycan so we’re all at the mercy of Porsche not to change this.

but as of now the following facts are true:

• when you plug into the 9.6 kW Porsche PMC+/PMCC in-vehicle charging user interface with show 8.87 kW charge rate (about right for 9.6 kW “raw” given charging overhead an AC/DC losses)
  • same is true for any other 9.6 kW 50/40 amp EVSE non-Porsche
• when you plug into ANY 60 amp (48 amp) EVSE J-1772 charger in-vehicle charging user interface will show 10.46 kW charge rate (about right for 11 kW “raw” given charging overhead on AC/DC losses)

now porsche could nerf this at any time - but if they were to nerf it I would guess software “nerf” rather than hardware differences - so it would require a software update for porsche to change this - and we all know how good they are at software.

another interesting fact if if you plug into 9.6 kW the time estimate comes up and shows will be done at hh:mm
if you plug into 11 kw charger the time estimate will come up and shows it will be done at hh:mm - and the hh:mm is always sooner for 11 kW vs. 9.6 kw

we have two pieces of data from Porsche OWN software that demontrate the vehicle charges faster on an 11 kW charger - it shows larger charge rate (10.46 kw) and it estimates the charge will be done sooner - so this is not an illusion - again this is with Porsche‘s own in car software.

the honeset and most likely answer is as follows: porsche is shipping all Taycan’s world wide with the same 11 kW AC/DC converter/charger built into the vehicle - their software doesn’t actually care and will charge as fast as the rate supported by the in-car AC/DC converter - and the software adjusts based on what the external EVSE reports as it’s maximum charge rate.

there is _NO_ data other than porsche spec site that contradicts these assertions and the faster charge rate has been confirmed by multiple owners with multiple chargers both home and in the wild - now why Porsche documents 9.6 when they clearly ship a vehicle that can do 11 kW is beyond me - other than for simplicity of messaging.

 

[submatrix]

- we've now run into multiple stations where the Charging NA app does not even show the charging station we're trying to use. How can anyone charge if the app won't show the station ID ???? Thankfully, when this has happened, we've spent five minutes messing around with the app and then, miraculously, the correct station appears as a choice.

I could go on but this just shouldn't be this difficult. Not to mention, we're scared to death that the next charge will fail too.....

One thing you can try next time the Charging NA app is failing you is to try initiating the session from the Porsche Connect app. I've now incorporated this step into my "routine" if the Charging NA app is failing me. For example, on my last session for whatever reason, the Charging NA app would give me an unknown error every time I tried to initiate from it. I tried it from the Connect app and it worked the first time.

 

[daveo4EV]

if the Porsche charger is not an 11 kW charger then someone needs to explain the following two screen shots to me:

here is the charge rate reported by the Porsche in-car software when using the Porsche supplied PMCC 9.6 kw charger plugged into a NEMA 14-50 plug w/50 amp breaker and 50 amp rated wire - 40 amp charge rate (9.6 kW)

and here is the charge rate reported by the same vehicle 2020 Taycan Turbo Porsche in-car software when using a non Porsche EVSE on a 60 amp or greater EVSE (in my case a 100/80 amp TEsla Gen2 Charger)

please note the value above is greater than the documented 9.6 kW charge rate Porsche says is the maximum charge rate - so we immediately have a factual and reproducible result that contradicts Porsche’s own specifications (no one would complain that the 0-60 acceleration is better in real life than the spec, why so hard to believe they are actually shipping a 11 kw charger)

and the spirit of peer-reviewed research - these results are repeatable and have been confirmed by other owners - so this is not unique to my situation.

I await any factual actual charging results that differ - other than assertions by:

• dealers/porsche service rep’s that are universally clueless and barely understand the product they are supporting
• other venodrs that don’t want to open themselves up to misrepresentation claims for a product they do not control

 

[Jhenson29]

From some details @daveo4EV and others have posted, it appears that Porsche (and Audi and possibly other VAG brands that share the EVSE design) would have to go to extra effort and expense to design a special version of EVSE for North America that removes the 11 kW capability explicitly provided in other markets. That does not seem likely to me.

I don’t know. One of the requested features on the car is to adjust charging current limits in the car. If that feature ever comes along, seems pretty easy to limit it to spec. Almost seems like they’d have to or else people would wonder why they can “turn it up to 11”…kW that is. ??‍

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not hoping for it.

 

[daveo4EV]

From some details @daveo4EV and others have posted, it appears that Porsche (and Audi and possibly other VAG brands that share the EVSE design) would have to go to extra effort and expense to design a special version of EVSE for North America that removes the 11 kW capability explicitly provided in other markets. That does not seem likely to me.

EVSE is the “external charger“ and is in fact 9.6 kW - the electrical limit for any 40 amp charger (50 amp breaker)

and yes the 9.6 kW EVSE is shared across VW/Audi/Porsche brands - the limit we’re talking about here is NOT the limites of the EVSE - which is in fact limited to 9.6 kW

the limit we‘re talking about is the limit of what the AC/DC convert limits installed in the vehicle

and your posting exactly illustrates my point - this stuff is so hard to sort out - that for simplicity (since porsche does not offer/sell a 60 amp EVSE) - it’s very very confusing to document an 11 kW charging limit, but then say you can’t get that charge rate with a Porsche charger - you have to buy someone else‘s EVSE - not a Porsche charger. That’s not true in other regions - when they do offer and ship an 11 kW PMC+/PMCC - just ask the UK folks.

what seems to be common is the 11 kW AC/DC converter embedded inside the vehicle - this part is responsible for ingesting the “raw” 240v AC power and converting to an acceptable DC current to actually charge the battery - this is the on-board charger installed in the factory. At this time it appears from my personal experience and others that VW/Audi/Porssche are most likley sourcing the same part with the same capabilities for all their EV’s world wide.

For example the following is true:

• my 2020 Taycan can charge a rate in excess of 9.6 kW when using a 60 amp EVSE in North America - porsche documents the limit as 9.6 kW but it charges at 10.46 kW
• my friends 2021 Audi eTron can charge at a rate in excess of 9.6 kw when using a 60 amp EVSE in North America (they charge at my house all the time) - Audi documents the limit of the eTron as 9.6 kW - but it also charges at the same 10.46 kW rate

I also have power monitoring equipment that monitors the PG&E smart meter in my home - aand guess what:

• when I plug my Taycan into the Porsche PMCC the electrical meters shows about a 9.6 kW load
• when I plug my friends eTron into the Porsche PMCC the electrical meter shows about a 9.6 kW
• when I plug my Taycan into my Tesla charger the electrical meter shows about a 11.5 kW load
• when I plug my friends eTrong into my Tesla charger the electrical meter shows about a 11.5 kw load

when you plug the Taycan/eTron into a higer amp charger - they both happily accept and take advantage of a higher charging rate, they charge faster, and they use a higher current - both of which exceed the documented specification from Audi/Porsche, and yet exactly match the specification for those vehicles in non-North American regions…it’s not hard to figure out what’s going on here.

 

[Mr Hockey]

One thing you can try next time the Charging NA app is failing you is to try initiating the session from the Porsche Connect app. I've now incorporated this step into my "routine" if the Charging NA app is failing me. For example, on my last session for whatever reason, the Charging NA app would give me an unknown error every time I tried to initiate from it. I tried it from the Connect app and it worked the first time.

That is what we’re doing - sometimes it hasn’t worked either like yesterday. After several attempts the charging NA app suddenly got the job done. It’s predictable in its unpredictability !

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