Mobile Charge Connect - Is it really needed ?

[W1NGE]

I don't think in the US with the standard PMCP charger you have a 240V 16amp option. I wish you had but the lowest amp rated 240V adapter that comes with PMCP is a 30 amp adapter (Nema 15-30). I have a feeling people tend to overkill when it comes to charging speed. How many times you drive 250miles come back home and in 10 hours (assume you need some sleep and shower) you need to drive another 250miles. That never happened to me but of course lifestyles are different, if you are a real estate agent your needs would be different . We have been using a simple US home plug for the past 1 year (1.3kw charging speed) and worked perfectly fine for us. We have a standard suburban lifestyle with 2 kids, commute to work, pick up kids go to groceries and we only plug it in less half the time. I think 240V X 16 amp would be way more than enough for us with double+ the speed vs115x12amp (and would avoid a costly rewiring to our garage as low amp 240V solutions can use same wiring) but PMCP does not seem to support it. There is a 50% option on the device, so theoretically if I put a NEMA 15-30 and click 50%, it should pull ~15amps but the adapter physically won't fit the 240Vx16amp outlet set up. Appreciate any ideas on this.

The amp reduction is controlled within the PMC+ and the cabling would remain the same - supporting up to 32A.

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[Avantgarde]

Honestly I can't say because never done that. I typically plug it when it hits 50% and take it to 80% and thats typically a ~20 hr charge at 1.3kw. So in my case I won't plug for 2-3 days and then plug it in, sometimes if I don't drive the car next day it would get to 80% next afternoon and I'd unplug, If i need to drive the car next day sometimes I'd unplug say at 70%, drive it, then I plug it again when I come back and then it gets to 80% overnight. Our other vehicle is a X5 plug in hybrid with a 35 mile EV only range. And even with that we managed 1.3kw work. Taycan, with such a massive battery (which means you have a lot more headroom and flexibility) it is very difficult for charging speed to become a problem in real life. Theoretical calcs like "oh it needs XX hours to 15-80%, thats too slow" are a bit meaningless data points with all due respect. I can't seem to explain this to anyone including my friends though. People freak out when they hear charging times. In reality no one seem to care to try first. A lot of people schedule their $3000 50 amp installation before their car even arrives based on pure imagination of how it will work. I also almost scheduled mine but of layzness did not get it done until the car arrived. Then I said let me live with Level 1 for couple weeks see how miserable it is, only to realize it is not miserable at all... Bottom line, if I could get a 12-15 amp 240V set up that would be a solutions that addresses every possible use case including the 1-2% of times when I need to deplete the battery back to back in a couple days, which my current set up does not address (although you always have DC charging for those instances)

 

[Avantgarde]

The amp reduction is controlled within the PMC+ and the cabling would remain the same - supporting up to 32A.

Thanks, my issue is 240V - 20amp set up is a different plug type than 15-50 or 15-30, believe it is called NEMA 6-20. I don't know how you can connect PMC+ to that plug, I can't seem to find an adapter online.

 

[Jhenson29]

How much does it take for you to charge from 15 to 85 every day ?

At 1.3KW, it would take a little under 48 hours, so not possible “everyday”.

And as @Avantgarde stated, 50-80% is around 20 hours.

 

[kort]

Thanks, my issue is 240V - 20amp set up is a different plug type than 15-50 or 15-30, believe it is called NEMA 6-20. I don't know how you can connect PMC+ to that plug, I can't seem to find an adapter online.

there is no adapter for your 6-20 to use the porsche charger.

 

[Windpower]

Bottom line, if I could get a 12-15 amp 240V set up that would be a solutions that addresses every possible use case including the 1-2% of times when I need to deplete the battery back to back in a couple days, which my current set up does not address (although you always have DC charging for those instances)

If you have a 120v 15 amp plug in your garage which could be dedicated to your EVSE (not shared with anything else), you might be able to have it converted by an electrician to 240v at 15 amps. The wires used in homes (at least in North America) are good to 600v so going from 120v to 240v is possible. The current capacity is determined by the wire gauge, which for household wire would be either 14 gauge (maximum 15 amps) or 12 gauge (maximum 20 amps).
It would need to be a four wire cable (the wires inside the cable might be black, white, red and a copper ground wire) since most non-Tesla EVSE's need four wires (Tesla EVSE's use three wires).
So, if you have a dedicated wire going to your garage with four wires of either 14 or 12 gauge, you would double your charging rate without having to run a new cable.

PS: the maximum charging rate is always 80% of the wire capacity. So on 14 gauge wire, which is 15 amps max, your charging rate needs to be set to 80% of 15 amps, or 12 amps.

 

[kort]

If you have a 120v 15 amp plug in your garage which could be dedicated to your EVSE (not shared with anything else), you might be able to have it converted by an electrician to 240v at 15 amps. The wires used in homes (at least in North America) are good to 600v so going from 120v to 240v is possible. The current capacity is determined by the wire gauge, which for household wire would be either 14 gauge (maximum 15 amps) or 12 gauge (maximum 20 amps).
It would need to be a four wire cable (the wires inside the cable might be black, white, red and a copper ground wire) since most non-Tesla EVSE's need four wires (Tesla EVSE's use three wires).
So, if you have a dedicated wire going to your garage with four wires of either 14 or 12 gauge, you would double your charging rate without having to run a new cable.

PS: the maximum charging rate is always 80% of the wire capacity. So on 14 gauge wire, which is 15 amps max, your charging needs to be set to 80% of 15 amps, or 240v at 12 amps.

fwiw: you are correct this conversion can be done but you will only get 6 miles of range per hour from the 240 set up. while that is twice the rate that he is now getting it really is nothing near what a 240 50 amp like could provide.

 

[Avantgarde]

If you have a 120v 15 amp plug in your garage which could be dedicated to your EVSE (not shared with anything else), you might be able to have it converted by an electrician to 240v at 15 amps. The wires used in homes (at least in North America) are good to 600v so going from 120v to 240v is possible. The current capacity is determined by the wire gauge, which for household wire would be either 14 gauge (maximum 15 amps) or 12 gauge (maximum 20 amps).
It would need to be a four wire cable (the wires inside the cable might be black, white, red and a copper ground wire) since most non-Tesla EVSE's need four wires (Tesla EVSE's use three wires).
So, if you have a dedicated wire going to your garage with four wires of either 14 or 12 gauge, you would double your charging rate without having to run a new cable.

PS: the maximum charging rate is always 80% of the wire capacity. So on 14 gauge wire, which is 15 amps max, your charging rate needs to be set to 80% of 15 amps, or 12 amps.

Thank you for confirming this is exactly what I was hoping for. 2X current speed would be plenty for me. But charger wise I can't use the Porsche Mobile charger right? Sounds like I need to buy a different 240V 16 amp charger, do you agree?

 

[daveo4EV]

If you have a 120v 15 amp plug in your garage which could be dedicated to your EVSE (not shared with anything else), you might be able to have it converted by an electrician to 240v at 15 amps. The wires used in homes (at least in North America) are good to 600v so going from 120v to 240v is possible. The current capacity is determined by the wire gauge, which for household wire would be either 14 gauge (maximum 15 amps) or 12 gauge (maximum 20 amps).
It would need to be a four wire cable (the wires inside the cable might be black, white, red and a copper ground wire) since most non-Tesla EVSE's need four wires (Tesla EVSE's use three wires).
So, if you have a dedicated wire going to your garage with four wires of either 14 or 12 gauge, you would double your charging rate without having to run a new cable.

PS: the maximum charging rate is always 80% of the wire capacity. So on 14 gauge wire, which is 15 amps max, your charging needs to be set to 80% of 15 amps, or 12 amps.

also for an EV charger in north america you do not need or use 4 wires/conductors - only 3 wires are required for either 120V or 240V

in the case of a 120V connection it is

• 1 x hot
• 1 x neutral
• 1 x ground

in the case of a 240V connection it is

• 1 x hot
• 1 x hot
• 1 x ground

in the case of 4 wire 240V connections the 4th "neutral" wire is "unused" and often times not even wired up - for example in in the Porsche PMC+/PMCC supply cable for NEMA 14-50 - there is not even an extra conductor wire for the neutral in the supply cable…the forth plug blade on the connector itself is not even wired up - it's just there to "fit the plug" but is unused

I can not confirm that all eV chargers "just" work with 240V but most do in fact work

for example if you wire up a NEMA 5-15 plug to have two "hots" instead of 1 hot and netural and then plug in an EVSE to this "mis-wired" plug the EV charger will "just work" and the vehicle will charge at 240V rate - the EVSE and/or the car do not actually care about 120V/240V - it just consumes what is available on the circuit - this is true for the following vehicles I have personally tested:

• Tesla
• Chevy Volt
• Chevy Bolt
• Taycan
• Audi eTron SUV
• Nissan Leaf
• Cayenne Hybrid
• Ford Mach-E

EVSE will seamlessly "deal" with 120V vs. 240V if you manged to get a plug adapter wired up…the only "rule" is that you need to make sure you do not mismanage the "amps" - i.e. do not end up pulling 40 amps across a 20 amp circuit - that is becuase the wire guage is rated not for the volts (120 vs. 240 - as mentioned most wire can easily handle 600V or more) - but rather the amount of current being pulled across the wire should not exceed the maximum current (flow) of electrons - if you pull too much current the wire will heat up and potentially melt the wire insulation which can then cause a short and potentially a fire beyond that…

swapping a 120V circuit to become a 240V circuit is easy if you have access to breaker box and can swap a breaker - but to do this you MUST make sure the EVSE is the _ONLY_ appliance using that circuit - because while EVSE's tolerate this sort of thing - other devices/appliances may not be so tolerate and make be damaged when plugged into this bastard circuit - it's also a violation of US regional building codes and therefore not recomended

what is being discussed here is NOT a recommended practice, but rather a mental excersize to illuminate how all this works underneath the covers…

all J-1772 based North American EV chargers are agnostic with regards to 120V/240V - because the J-1772 connector only has 5 conductors in the end of the plug that goes into the vehicle

• 1 high voltage conductor for a 'hot'
• 1 high voltage conductor for a 'hot" _OR_ 'neutral' in the case of L2 or L1 charging
• 1 high voltage conductor for a "ground'
• 1 low voltage conductor for pilot signal - communication/safety
• 1 low voltage conductor for pilot signal - communication/safety

the _ONLY_ time the J-1772 standard has neutral involved is L1 charging (120Vs) - in the case of L2 (240V) chargerin there is NOT even an actual electrical conductor in the J-1772 standard that could be used for an electrical neutral - EVSE's do not need 4 wires (hot, hot, neutral, ground) - they only require and function with 3 wires (hot, hot, ground) - in the case of 4 wire 240V circuits EVSE's provide 4 wire plugs for compatibility and simplicity of the end user - but the 4 blade/conductor is a dummy blade and not utilized.

food for thought - if you do this and have taken advise from the internet and burn your house down - please don't consider this a recommendation or advise - always consult a licensed electrician before making any changes - the internet and it's postings are not a licensed electrician.

 

[W1NGE]

Thanks, my issue is 240V - 20amp set up is a different plug type than 15-50 or 15-30, believe it is called NEMA 6-20. I don't know how you can connect PMC+ to that plug, I can't seem to find an adapter online.

In UK the EVSEs are shipped with two interchangeable connectors - STD 13A 3 pin plug (1.3kW charging which I'd never choose to do) and a 32A industrial connector for 7.4kW (perfect). I thought the US market would have got equivalents.

Perhaps consult an electrician for advice. My install was £500 and I'm sure could be done for less.

 

[daveo4EV]

Thank you for confirming this is exactly what I was hoping for. 2X current speed would be plenty for me. But charger wise I can't use the Porsche Mobile charger right? Sounds like I need to buy a different 240V 16 amp charger, do you agree?

if you want to use a 20 amp circuit you should buy an EVSE with a NEMA 5-20 or 6-20 plug adapter for safety and building code compliance - Tesla UMC w/TeslaTap adapter or Mustart both provide NEMA 5-20 and/or 6-20 plug adapters for use with 20 amp circuits - these adapters "set" the maximum amp draw to 16 amps (80% of the 20 amp breaker rating)

I have tested my 2020 Taycan Turbo with my Tesla UMC EVSE with both a NEMA 5-20 and 6-20 adapter - the Taycan behaves appropriately in this configuration and charged at the expected higher rate provided by the 20 amp circuits in both the L1 (120V) and L2 (240V) circuits…I have no reason to suspect it will not behave the same with a Mustart charger and appropriate adapter.

NOTE: not all EV's behave appropriately with a NEMA 5-20 circuit - Chevy for example limits the Bolt to a maximum of 12 amps in _ALL_ L1 charging scenarios - so even when you plug a Chevy bolt into an L1 EVSE offering 20 (16 amp charge rate) or 30 amps (24 amp charge rate) - the Bolt will stubbornly refuse to pull/charge at more than 12 amps for any 120V/L1 charging scenario

fortunately for us the Taycan has no such limitation, and in my testing over the past two years the Taycan seems to always charge at the maximum rate offered by the EVSE appropriate to the capacity being advertised by the EVSE…

 

[Windpower]

In UK the EVSEs are shipped with two interchangeable connectors - STD 13A 3 pin plug (1.3kW charging which I'd never choose to do) and a 32A industrial connector for 7.4kW (perfect). I thought the US market would have got equivalents.

It is similar in North America: standard home outlets are usually 120v at 15 amps (1.8 kw) but outlets for ovens and dryers are mostly 240v at 30, 40 or 50 amps (7.2kw, 9.60kw, 12kw). In all cases, if you have a 30amp, 40amp or 50amp circuit and are using for EV charging, the EVSE is limited to 80% of the circuit capacity.

for an EV charger in north america you do not need or use 4 wires/conductors

I guess it depends upon which EVSE you are using. My Juicebox 40 required four wires: two hots, a neutral and a ground. I use the Juicebox 40 for both my Tesla Y and the Taycan. In both cases, I have the charge rate set to 32 amps.

 

[Avantgarde]

if you want to use a 20 amp circuit you should buy an EVSE with a NEMA 5-20 or 6-20 plug adapter for safety and building code compliance - Tesla UMC w/TeslaTap adapter or Mustart both provide NEMA 5-20 and/or 6-20 plug adapters for use with 20 amp circuits - these adapters "set" the maximum amp draw to 16 amps (80% of the 20 amp breaker rating)

I have tested my 2020 Taycan Turbo with my Tesla UMC EVSE with both a NEMA 5-20 and 6-20 adapter - the Taycan behaves appropriately in this configuration and charged at the expected higher rate provided by the 20 amp circuits in both the L1 (120V) and L2 (240V) circuits…I have no reason to suspect it will not behave the same with a Mustart charger and appropriate adapter.

NOTE: not all EV's behave appropriately with a NEMA 5-20 circuit - Chevy for example limits the Bolt to a maximum of 12 amps in _ALL_ L1 charging scenarios - so even when you plug a Chevy bolt into an L1 EVSE offering 20 (16 amp charge rate) or 30 amps (24 amp charge rate) - the Bolt will stubbornly refuse to pull/charge at more than 12 amps for any 120V/L1 charging scenario

fortunately for us the Taycan has no such limitation, and in my testing over the past two years the Taycan seems to always charge at the maximum rate offered by the EVSE appropriate to the capacity being advertised by the EVSE…

Thanks, this feels like a safer route than trying to connect PMC+ to to 6-20 outlet via some adapter. It's just odd that porsche would not make an adapter for an otherwise excellent charger.

 

[daveo4EV]

I guess it depends upon which EVSE you are using. My Juicebox 40 required four wires: two hots, a neutral and a ground.

I have no idea how the Juice box would use the 4th wire neutral since the physical J-1772 vehicie connectors has NO physical wire for a neutral in an L2 charging scenario - the Juice box may be using the 4th wire for it's own internal electronics to run 120V functions inside the juice box - but it it _NOT_ used as part of charging _ANY_ north american EV given the lack of a physical conductor for Neutral in the J-1772 standard.

In case of ClipperCreek EV chargers they actually have errata and notes in their installation guilds noting the electrical neutral is "unused" and "unnecessary"

and Porsche's own EVSE (the PMC+/PMCC and the Porsche Wall Charger) all function with only 2xhot + ground (porsche's own 6-30 and 6-50 supply cables have no neutral) - neutral is unused and not required, and not supported for J-1772 L2 charging - you only need 3 wires - if this was not true EV charging could NOT work with 6-30 or 6-50 electrical circuits.

if an EVSE requires a Neutral for 240V charging - it's not being used to charge the car, it most likely is required for the EVSE's internal operation, but not for actually charging the EV (running a local computer inside the EVSE for wifi or some such). Juice boxes open source origins this would make sense because there are off the shelf components for 120V AC to 5V/12V DC to run integrated circuits for the non-charging aspects of the juice box (wifi, LCD screen, etc…) - the juice box uses the neutral to run it's local computer which is using a run of the mill standard AC/DC converter for computer electroncs which would be easier and cheaper than having integrated computer DC based circuits operate from 240V AC with no neutral…

your L2 EVSE may require the neutral (if it does it's not for your EV) - but your North American EV DOES NOT!! This is true because your North American EV can charge from any number of 6-xx power sources or 3 wire hardwired EV chargers - proof of this is simple - Porsche makes both a NEMA 6-30 and 6-50 supply cable - these plugs DO NOT PROVIDE neutral connection - and yet the Porsche/Taycan function perfectly in this charging scenario lacking a neutral. The neutral is NOT required and/or used in L2 charging…if an EVSE requires a neutral it has nothing to do with charging the EV…

 

[Avantgarde]

In UK the EVSEs are shipped with two interchangeable connectors - STD 13A 3 pin plug (1.3kW charging which I'd never choose to do) and a 32A industrial connector for 7.4kW (perfect). I thought the US market would have got equivalents.

Perhaps consult an electrician for advice. My install was £500 and I'm sure could be done for less.

Thanks i got quotes and they are all $2500+ (likely more because of needed drywall work). Big house with finished basement, main panel and garage on opposite corners of the house.

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