Poll: R-N-D or D-N-R?

[Dee]

...
Problem solved.

What problem? ?

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[Mtljckt]

There's not a day when I don't think about the way these are placed. What a counterintuitive decision (I don't think there's a relevance in the fact that other Porsche models have it already, you can do this mistake once, but then fix it). I'm having a similar problem with my older BMWs where the designer switched the volume on the steering wheel from right to left. Do I have to recalibrate every time I drive the old car?
Now this one is much more difficult to understand than a simple volume button. Why do I have to press down and backwards if I need to move forward???

BMW i3 has the D positioned forward, btw. So the fact that the stick used to have PRND has no relevance. I don't think about the stick... Do a blind test with these buttons without any letters, most people will identify UP to Forward. Trust me, I'm an architect.

 

[Bill4444]

I’m thinking of canceling my ct order now.

 

[Dee]

...
BMW i3 has the D positioned forward, btw. So the fact that the stick used to have PRND has no relevance. I don't think about the stick... Do a blind test with these buttons without any letters, most people will identify UP to Forward. Trust me, I'm an architect.

Coming from an i3 I had no problem whatsoever.
And still don't.
(The VW ID3 has the same switch as the i3 btw).

Do you have problems switching from manual cars to auto too?
Before this silly topic I never heard about people who had issues with the switch...
You are serious, aren't you?
Switching up or down is BOTH counterintuitive in this particular case.
Trust me, I'm a designer. ?

 

[dickp]

Coming from an i3 I had no problem whatsoever.
And still don't.
(The VW ID3 has the same switch as the i3 btw).

Do you have problems switching from manual cars to auto too?
Before this silly topic I never heard about people who had issues with the switch...
You are serious, aren't you?
Switching up or down is BOTH counterintuitive in this particular case.
Trust me, I'm a designer. ?

Why would anyone give a rats ass?. Trust me, I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night!

 

[DGT]

Hey, let's hear from everyone with complaints that the "start" button is on the left.

 

[KensingtonPark]

Hey, let's hear from everyone with complaints that the "start" button is on the left.

There's a "start" button?

 

[B61]

Hey, let's hear from everyone with complaints that the "start" button is on the left.

not in England, Australia, etc

 

[KenTO]

Where I work D N R = do not resuscitate

 

[kruzmisl]

The pattern in the Taycan is the same as the 992 911s, except that it is mounted on the dash (like the 918 Spyder) rather than the console. Up/forward for reverse, down/back for drive, with separate button for park. Cayenne and Panamera are the same but with more of a traditional "shifter" look for the gear selector - forward for reverse and back for drive. All seems logical to me. Just don't know how long it's going to take to get used to reaching up toward the dash for the drive selector on the Taycan....

I have to smile at the range of responses. In YOUR response, you say: “Up/FORWARD for reverse”. That’s clear as mud! But I believe that “muscle Memory” takes over when you are either not really thinking about what you are doing, or acting in response to a critical decision. Driving multiple cars greatly effects this. That’s partially why I sold my MB GLE500E Hybrid, and got a Cayenne e-hybrid to match my wife’s Panamera Turbo S-E-Hybrid. Prior to this, I/we were often turning on the windshield wipers when getting started or backing up, which sits where the gear selector was on the MB. Now I only hit the wipers when I’m reaching around the wheel to change the gear lever, which is blocked by the wheel, and hard to see. Yes someone said, the electronics show in the dash, but they are not operative. The one time I valet parked, the attendant was pushing on the inoperative indicators on the dash, rather than use the unseen gear lever. And also the wipers were running, dry of course! I’m my case, I blew out my right rotator cuff 3 years ago. After much exercises, it’s now strong enough to reach up, but still with some discomfort. If I had the Taycan when this happened I would never have been able to reach the lever. Now it is manageable. I just experimented reaching through the wheel with my left. No so good. Driving a Ferrari FF, the reverse, “full auto”, and my favorite, “manual” are all buttons on the console. It has the “MAGIC” start button on the wheel. And NOTHING sounds or feels like a Ferrari V12! Bottom line, the Taycan lever could have been placed better. Maybe a set of buttons on the wheel. ON THE OTHER HAND, over the years I’ve owned or driven a number of “super cars”, owned many memorable cars. My 2021 TAYCAN is THE best overall instant response driving experience I’ve ever had. (well maybe my 600+ hp, wheelstanding “70 Olds 442, with 5 speed clutchless manual trans!). I do miss the Panamera sport exhaust and 670hp, (more on race gas!), and especially the paddle shifters, upshifting or downshifting to control speed. But I do now find that hitting the Taycan Regen button gives me a similar feel of control, especially going downhill. Plus we get a bonus charge. ?

 

[DGT]

I have to smile at the range of responses. In YOUR response, you say: “Up/FORWARD for reverse”. That’s clear as mud! But I believe that “muscle Memory” takes over when you are either not really thinking about what you are doing, or acting in response to a critical decision. Driving multiple cars greatly effects this. That’s partially why I sold my MB GLE500E Hybrid, and got a Cayenne e-hybrid to match my wife’s Panamera Turbo S-E-Hybrid. Prior to this, I/we were often turning on the windshield wipers when getting started or backing up, which sits where the gear selector was on the MB. Now I only hit the wipers when I’m reaching around the wheel to change the gear lever, which is blocked by the wheel, and hard to see. Yes someone said, the electronics show in the dash, but they are not operative. The one time I valet parked, the attendant was pushing on the inoperative indicators on the dash, rather than use the unseen gear lever. And also the wipers were running, dry of course! I’m my case, I blew out my right rotator cuff 3 years ago. After much exercises, it’s now strong enough to reach up, but still with some discomfort. If I had the Taycan when this happened I would never have been able to reach the lever. Now it is manageable. I just experimented reaching through the wheel with my left. No so good. Driving a Ferrari FF, the reverse, “full auto”, and my favorite, “manual” are all buttons on the console. It has the “MAGIC” start button on the wheel. And NOTHING sounds or feels like a Ferrari V12! Bottom line, the Taycan lever could have been placed better. Maybe a set of buttons on the wheel. ON THE OTHER HAND, over the years I’ve owned or driven a number of “super cars”, owned many memorable cars. My 2021 TAYCAN is THE best overall instant response driving experience I’ve ever had. (well maybe my 600+ hp, wheelstanding “70 Olds 442, with 5 speed clutchless manual trans!). I do miss the Panamera sport exhaust and 670hp, (more on race gas!), and especially the paddle shifters, upshifting or downshifting to control speed. But I do now find that hitting the Taycan Regen button gives me a similar feel of control, especially going downhill. Plus we get a bonus charge. ?

In my response I was saying that the pattern on the Taycan and the 992 911 are similar UP (Taycan)/FORWARD (992) are reverse, DOWN (Taycan/BACK (992) for drive. I'd still rather have the gear selector on the console and beyond that, would prefer the design of the current Panamera and Cayenne over the nubbin gear selector of the 992.

 

[Dee]

Hey, let's hear from everyone with complaints that the "start" button is on the left.

I don't know if everybody knows why it's on the left?
It's from the time where racers got to their vehicle at LeMans (clockwise) back in the days.
The cars were lined up at the right, the drivers on the left.
When starting the race, the drivers ran to their vehicles and jumped in.
Cuz the starter button was on the left there was a small advantage in starting the car a little earlier cuz it was closer to the driver when he got in.

 

[Mike in CA]

There's not a day when I don't think about the way these are placed. What a counterintuitive decision (I don't think there's a relevance in the fact that other Porsche models have it already, you can do this mistake once, but then fix it). I'm having a similar problem with my older BMWs where the designer switched the volume on the steering wheel from right to left. Do I have to recalibrate every time I drive the old car?
Now this one is much more difficult to understand than a simple volume button. Why do I have to press down and backwards if I need to move forward???

BMW i3 has the D positioned forward, btw. So the fact that the stick used to have PRND has no relevance. I don't think about the stick... Do a blind test with these buttons without any letters, most people will identify UP to Forward. Trust me, I'm an architect.

Forget the console stick. In an electric car it's an unnecessary anachronism anyway.

But I'm curious:

1. Do you think it's logical for the motion of the toggle to match the orientation of the "gearshift" display in the instrument cluster? Personally, as an engineer, I think it would be illogical and confusing for it to not match.

2. Do you think the orientation of the "gearshift" display should be different in the Taycan than in every other Porsche? In fact, can you give an example of any make of car where the instrument cluster display has the D above the R?

I suspect that the answers to the two questions above instructed Porsche designers on their decision with the toggle. Others may reach a different conclusion but it makes sense to me.

I do find this whole discussion a pretty interesting example of how people's responses to something can be so different. Since I first found the toggle on the dash to engage the drive mode (I did have to search a bit the very first time I got in a Taycan) and learned that it needed to be pushed down to engage Drive, I've never given it a second thought. Clearly it really bothers other folks.

 

[B61]

@Dee : Looks that Renault was never on LeMans since they put start button on the right side

 

[Mike in CA]

I don't know if everybody knows why it's on the left?
It's from the time where racers got to their vehicle at LeMans (clockwise) back in the days.
The cars were lined up at the right, the drivers on the left.
When starting the race, the drivers ran to their vehicles and jumped in.
Cuz the starter button was on the left there was a small advantage in starting the car a little earlier cuz it was closer to the driver when he got in.

That, in fact, is the common understanding and it did probably provide Porsche racers with some benefit.

However, I visited the Porsche museum in Stuttgart a few years back and was fortunate enough to be given a personal tour by one of the museum guides. He told me that while there was a mythology around the LeMans explanation, the real reason was more mundane.

Much earlier than Porsche's first participation at LeMans, when Ferry Porsche started building cars, he didn't have a lot of capital and so tried to save money where possible. Moreover, in post war Germany copper was scarce and expensive. As it turned out, Ferry could use less wire by putting the ignition on the left of his rear engine cars, rather than in the customary more centralized position. The rest is history and the tradition was obviously carried over to the present day.

FWIW.

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