Redshift Performance Intro - Taycan ECU Performance Packages

[WasserGKuehlt]

I thought I’d chime in with yet another opinion here. I’m not a hardware guy, but if I wanted to protect my product against tampering (or C my A against a claim), it would be trivial for me (==manufacturer) to detect a change: either of values, or of a module being replaced entirely.

As @whitex pointed out earlier, it’s really an issue of wanting to act on detecting a change, and also one of being able to detect it remotely (which, in this case, is not really important).

I’m not suggesting that this tune is visible necessarily to a dealer using a first-pass scanner, but let’s not pretend this is somehow write-only memory. Something has to act on that bit, and allow more current etc. (or however the power capping is implemented), and it should be obvious that those values (ie current, power) can be measured/recorded - that is, if the bit flip wasn’t audited in the first place.

Having said all that, I’ve already started the man-math calculations and planning on how to get this done - the upcoming IMSA race at Laguna Seca seems like a great opportunity to meet in person, and do proper A/B comparison (900mi drive each way should be plenty).

Lastly, Porsche did collect/record data on engine revs about ~20 years ago; I’m pretty sure they emit signals from all the car’s subsystems. I don’t necessarily think that not transmitting them to their backend is a sign of software weakness. Most of that data is noise most of the time, and a few outliers which may be interesting are perhaps nothing they haven’t seen in internal testing. I do see why such signals were essential for a new manufacturer trying new things (ie Tesla).

(edits for clarity)

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[ShiftyWolf]

I think there is clearly a market for this type of tuning, especially as sporting EVs become more common and replace their former ICE models. I definitely appreciate all the research and engineering @redshift-performance has clearly put into their ECU tuning.

With that in mind, EV tuning is very new and I think before and after 1/4 mile comparisons, 30-70 mph times, and dyno charts would be very welcome additions to your website or future threads.

Welcome as a sponsor and best wishes to anyone who wants to tune.

 

[Murph7355]

....
Mario said the ASG cloning is not something they currently know how to do, but hopefully someone will figure it out. The dealership can do it, so hopefully one day that software will become available in the aftermarket world.
...

We ideally shouldn't be needing to hide things from Porsche though.

We get pissed when they play fast and loose with warranties, but then...

It'd be nice if those providing these mods would warranty them. Or if Porsche would offer the service themselves.

As it stands, there's simply too much scope for a need to claim on warranty with these cars. So unless you're prepared to write off a very large chunk of car cost....

When a GTS is 30k (some time next summer ) then I'd possibly be up for it.

Until then, I'm not brave enough (and await the cries of those having claims denied ).

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

It'd be nice if those providing these mods would warranty them. Or if Porsche would offer the service themselves.

The latter is damn near impossible*; Porsche opted for creating a large price range with the same model, and that "stratification" has been achieved with software limits. If they were to pull the stops for base/4/GTS models, those who paid more for their 4S/turbos would justifiably get pissed off.

On ICE, the stratification is easier, as the different trims get effectively different engines (not just diff tunes).

*By 'impossible' I mean here 'extremely unlikely to happen'.

 

[Jhenson29]

On ICE, the stratification is easier, as the different trims get effectively different engines (not just diff tunes).

On 992, all Carreras have the same engine (base through GTS). S and GTS have bigger turbos than base and T, but GTS over S is just a tune.

 

[Murph7355]

The latter is damn near impossible*; Porsche opted for creating a large price range with the same model, and that "stratification" has been achieved with software limits. If they were to pull the stops for base/4/GTS models, those who paid more for their 4S/turbos would justifiably get pissed off.

On ICE, the stratification is easier, as the different trims get effectively different engines (not just diff tunes).

*By 'impossible' I mean here 'extremely unlikely to happen'.

As noted by Jhenson29, that's not really the case any more.

Similarly, on general options you can spec up any model with almost anything. It's just often more cost effective to get the upper end model if you want all the toys.

No reason they couldn't do the same here.

The bigger "issue" is that they simply don't offer LC power all the time at any trim level.

That's poor design choices IMO. They could do that a dozen different ways, but choose not to.

Though I never thought I'd be sat here saying I think I "need" 800bhp instead of just 600bhp in an estate car. I remember when the media wanted the boss of GM hung, drawn and quartered for 377bhp in the Lotus Carlton

 

[Hirschaj]

Add me to the "I really want the mod but can't justify a $50K battery replacement cost if anything goes wrong" camp. I suspect most people will fall into this category and any mod like this will see very limited adoption until vehicles get beyond their HV battery warranty period. Sorry @redshift-performance , I just don't think you'll sell this in large numbers even though it seems awesome!

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

As noted by Jhenson29, that's not really the case any more.

Similarly, on general options you can spec up any model with almost anything. It's just often more cost effective to get the upper end model if you want all the toys.

No reason they couldn't do the same here.

The bigger "issue" is that they simply don't offer LC power all the time at any trim level.

That's poor design choices IMO. They could do that a dozen different ways, but choose not to.

Though I never thought I'd be sat here saying I think I "need" 800bhp instead of just 600bhp in an estate car. I remember when the media wanted the boss of GM hung, drawn and quartered for 377bhp in the Lotus Carlton

“Bigger turbos” is, you know, different hardware. The block may be the same, but there are physical differences between trims. And i do agree, it’s not all based on different parts, but it’s easier. (Plus the base 992 does not get the manual gearbox, which is another way Porsche can squeeze 6 trims out of roughly the same car.)

 

[whitex]

The latter is damn near impossible*; Porsche opted for creating a large price range with the same model, and that "stratification" has been achieved with software limits. If they were to pull the stops for base/4/GTS models, those who paid more for their 4S/turbos would justifiably get pissed off.

On ICE, the stratification is easier, as the different trims get effectively different engines (not just diff tunes).

*By 'impossible' I mean here 'extremely unlikely to happen'.

Worth mentioning that Tesla went through this themselves, initially shipping M3 Performance motors software locked for non-performance cars. People found ways to unlock, or rather, to go around it. There was a cat an mouse game at first, initially it would just work, then Tesla would detect it and show a message on the screen that you may be voiding your warranty, then the mod maker (it was a hardware dongle) updated it so Tesla would not detect it. Eventually Tesla secured the communications to the ESC, but even before then there was internet outrage about “I own the hardware, I should be able to use it to it’s fullest capabilities”, which resulted in Tesla producing base motors with thinner wires, which were not capable of performance power. Not sure if it was all wiring, or just a small portion essentially serving as a fuse, but that seems to have calmed everyone down. Evidently people in general are happier getting less capable hardware vs. more capable hardware which is software limited.

My point is that it is possible to differentiate in hardware for EVs, Porsche just hasn’t learned it yet (they did do it for the front motor inverter, possibly unintentionally).

 

[redshift-performance]

Thank you Taycan Forum members for the tremendous amount of feedback in this thread and to everyone who reached out directly to discuss the upgrade and next steps! We are excited for what the future holds and we take the feedback in this forum seriously in developing our services for our customers.
Based on some of the suggestions in this thread we are actively developing a second/backup ECU solution to provide the additional piece of mind that some people are asking for. Stay tuned!

 

[Emokeff88]

You really should be focused on the RWD. This is where your market is.

It’s all of us that bought a Porsche thinking it was a high performance car and now hope the $40k KIA Ionic at the light next to us doesn’t want to get in front of us. Because our $100k Porsche will get blown away…. Really quite embarrassing for us and Porsche.

This would be the smartest move IMO, RWD tunes would be selling like hotcakes. RWD is the only trim that can truly benefit from a tune.

 

[redshift-performance]

This would be the smartest move IMO, RWD tunes would be selling like hotcakes. RWD is the only trim that can truly benefit from a tune.

Hi Emokeff88
We do offer ECU performance upgrade for all trim levels including RWD base models. It is just not listed on our website. Interested parties please contact us directly at [email protected]

 

[Maahero]

Hi Emokeff88
We do offer ECU performance upgrade for all trim levels including RWD base models. It is just not listed on our website. Interested parties please contact us directly at [email protected]

Have any of your customers had the tune for the Turbo S? Whats the feedback? Any numbers you could share?

Is the tune availabe to be programmed/selected in "Sport Plus"-mode only?

 

[Mr.Smith]

Have any of your customers had the tune for the Turbo S? Whats the feedback? Any numbers you could share?

Is the tune availabe to be programmed/selected in "Sport Plus"-mode only?

2 were done on the same day. Waiting for better weather and open roads to do the testing. Would be interested in seeing how the 600amp inverter of the motor gets more power

 

[mattbrox]

Thank you Taycan Forum members for the tremendous amount of feedback in this thread and to everyone who reached out directly to discuss the upgrade and next steps! We are excited for what the future holds and we take the feedback in this forum seriously in developing our services for our customers.
Based on some of the suggestions in this thread we are actively developing a second/backup ECU solution to provide the additional piece of mind that some people are asking for. Stay tuned!

Good idea

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