Thinking of going back to ICE

[whitex]

I am actually over the whole instant torque thing mostly because I don’t actually accelerate that fast 80% of the time. Also I find that these days I really enjoy the build up of speed.

It sounds like EV's are not for you. EV's sacrifice weight for instant torque and power response. There are EV's with "chill" mode which limit the torque, but then why bother with an EV - might as well go to a lighter ICE car, unless light cars are not your thing either. I know folks who prefer 1980's era Ferraris. They won't beat a Model 3 in race, or even Nissan Leaf off the line, but some people prefer that. Life is short. Whether it's a 1908 Ford Model T, a 2023 Rimac Nevera, or anything in between, go with the car you like the most and can afford.

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[f1eng]

I almost never drive on dual carriageway roads and making good progress around here requires overtaking ability at 50mph and for that an EV is better than a sports car, particularly if it has a turbo.
By the time you are in the right gear and the lag is overcome the overtaking opportunity has often passed.
25 years ago I borrowed a 993 turbo for a weekend and that was the abiding memory, fantastic on a clear road and from 60 to 150, pretty well hopeless overtaking on a road where most cars were doing 50mph and infrequent short overtaking opportunities. Yes it is possible to leave it in a low gear revving its bollox off just in case, but IMO that is a crap way to proceed.
I ended up with a NA Ferrari with instant throttle response, probably a bit slower than the Porsche on an empty road with no lag induced irritation but massively better on the roads round here.

 

[Replika]

It would be the first car that if I owned, I would never sell.

I say that about every new car that I buy.

 

[RPSRPS]

Hello all, I know that Taycan is a beloved vehicle to people on this forum and I love mine as well, but I have hit too many snags and now considering of biting the bullet and getting a 911 GTS. It would be the first car that if I owned, I would never sell. I love my Taycan but there are too many small QC issues that has made me go back to my dealer so many times that I was driving the loaner more than my own car. I want to see those of you who owns 911 and what the cost of ownership is like and just some general comparisons between the 911 and the Taycan. I still will drive an EV in the future since I live in Cali and new ICE cars will be banned, but it would be nice to have an ICE in the mean time. I think since most brands are still figuring out the EV problem and cars have some sketchy QC issues, it might be wise to wait for tech to improve and drive Dino burner in the mean time.

Loved my 1979 911 TARGA and 2009 911S, greatest driver cars, more fun to drive than my Taycan GTS. That being said, cost for service is of course Porsche crazy (which doesn't bother me nearly as much as the justifications given by the dealer when you question the price or advise them you can get it done cheaper at another Porsche dealer - can't they just be happy knowing they are getting an enormous premium instead of trying to explain away several hundred dollars for an oil change, it's insulting - IMHO)? Hopefully, the frequency of that will decrease with the Taycan. The interior quality of my 2009 was surprisingly not the best either, which I believed has changed. Besides that, 911 wasn't a year rounder for us in the northeast, but for you it's a whole different story. You'll love it but you'll hate every time you bring it in for service.

 

[FlyingPoint]

I have owned two 991 911's and currently own a 991 GT3 since 2014, along with my Taycan.

Cost of ownership:
The 911 assuming only routine maintenance (Taycan is too new to know long term costs) is comparable to the Taycan, with the exception of oil and filter changes (air and oil). Additional possible routine changeouts are spark plugs and coils. I don't think there is an appreciable difference in tires as the 911 goes through rears quickly. That's about it. Not a deal breaker in terms of cost.

Driving Experience:
First, the 911 is easier to get in and out of. Second, they drive differently due to the Taycan's weight. On the highway, quite similar. On twisty roads, the 911 is superior in handling and braking. Third, the Taycan has better luggage and passenger utility in any variant over the 911.

Overall comparison, IMO, the 911 is a better drive all things considered. The Taycan is a great compromise and has better overall utility.

 

[senior]

I had an E-Tron GT on order for March 2023 Also Taycan ST GTS for 2024. I have cancelled both cars. Picking up a New Audi RS7 tomorrow weather permitting . I cannot believe the issues with both these cars the heater failure was enough for me. Will consider an EV maybe in 2 years. Still waiting on my 5K deposit refund from Porsche.

 

[Waterdog]

Don’t fantasize about lifetime ownership; you will drop the ICE 911 in a New York minute whenever Porsche unveils the EV 911.

Yup, I'm going to keep my Taycan CT4 until the EV 911 comes out!

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

I really don't see the case for a 911 EV. Upon its inception, it made a lot of sense as an ICE because of the clever, space-efficient packaging, and despite its weird handling traits. Its continued success owes, in a large part, to nostalgia: Porsche kept the formula - including the heavy rear, and customers bought it precisely because of that. The compactness of an electric drivetrain, and the flexibility of packaging a battery means that an EV with the traditional 911 handling traits (high polar momentum of inertia) is poorly designed _on purpose_. That is, you could place motors/battery anywhere and get a balanced car, but it wouldn't be a 911 (except in name; wouldn't that effectively kill the Boxster/Cayman line?); or, you could place the entire package behind the rear axle against all reason, and admit it's a pure nostalgia play. (Not to mention that the overall weight of an ICE drivetrain + tank is << the weight of an e-drivetrain + battery; an EV 911 with a 65-70% rear weight distribution would have to place more than "just the motors" but less than the entire battery back there.)

ICEs won't be going away for a long time; they will become a niche segment of the global fleet, and the 911 will be a permanent resident thereof. This, and classics, is probably the reason for Porsche's heavy investment in synthetic fuels.

 

[Stoneageman]

I really don't see the case for a 911 EV. Upon its inception, it made a lot of sense as an ICE because of the clever, space-efficient packaging, and despite its weird handling traits. Its continued success owes, in a large part, to nostalgia: Porsche kept the formula - including the heavy rear, and customers bought it precisely because of that. The compactness of an electric drivetrain, and the flexibility of packaging a battery means that an EV with the traditional 911 handling traits (high polar momentum of inertia) is poorly designed _on purpose_. That is, you could place motors/battery anywhere and get a balanced car, but it wouldn't be a 911 (except in name; wouldn't that effectively kill the Boxster/Cayman line?); or, you could place the entire package behind the rear axle against all reason, and admit it's a pure nostalgia play. (Not to mention that the overall weight of an ICE drivetrain + tank is << the weight of an e-drivetrain + battery; an EV 911 with a 65-70% rear weight distribution would have to place more than "just the motors" but less than the entire battery back there.)

ICEs won't be going away for a long time; they will become a niche segment of the global fleet, and the 911 will be a permanent resident thereof. This, and classics, is probably the reason for Porsche's heavy investment in synthetic fuels.

I completely agree with this. I think EV 911 does not make a lot of sense other than just for people who want to own a 911 when ICE 911 brand new are no longer available for sale.

 

[Archimedes]

I completely agree with this. I think EV 911 does not make a lot of sense other than just for people who want to own a 911 when ICE 911 brand new are no longer available for sale.

I take it you haven’t seen the video of Chris Harris driving the Mission R…

Porsche’s EV sports cars are going to be absolute beasts, and likely way more fun to drive than their ICE counterparts.

 

[DerekS]

Hello all, I know that Taycan is a beloved vehicle to people on this forum and I love mine as well, but I have hit too many snags and now considering of biting the bullet and getting a 911 GTS. It would be the first car that if I owned, I would never sell. I love my Taycan but there are too many small QC issues that has made me go back to my dealer so many times that I was driving the loaner more than my own car. I want to see those of you who owns 911 and what the cost of ownership is like and just some general comparisons between the 911 and the Taycan. I still will drive an EV in the future since I live in Cali and new ICE cars will be banned, but it would be nice to have an ICE in the mean time. I think since most brands are still figuring out the EV problem and cars have some sketchy QC issues, it might be wise to wait for tech to improve and drive Dino burner in the mean time.

I wanted to say something snarky but the 911 is a phenomenal vehicle that I really can't say a thing bad about.

Sorry EV life didn't work for you but you're going from awesome to awesome here.

 

[DerekS]

I completely agree with this. I think EV 911 does not make a lot of sense other than just for people who want to own a 911 when ICE 911 brand new are no longer available for sale.

Actually EV 911 is exactly what I want. A Targa specifically.

I am DONE with ICE. Full stop. But the 991 Targa is my favorite car of all time.
So I'm driving a Taycan for now until they make the car I want, or something close to it (a Boxster EV perhaps.)

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

Porsche’s EV sports cars are going to be absolute beasts, and likely way more fun to drive than their ICE counterparts.

We're not contesting that ; what separates (today) the 911 from the midengined models is really the handling characteristics and the mystique; it's most certainly not the existence of the rear seats, or the absence of a second trunk. Neither will be retained if the 911 EV will be just a souped-up Mission R. Since the Boxster/Cayman _are_ going EV, the 911 must either adopt a different architecture, or not go EV at all.

 

[Archimedes]

We're not contesting that ; what separates (today) the 911 from the midengined models is really the handling characteristics and the mystique; it's most certainly not the existence of the rear seats, or the absence of a second trunk. Neither will be retained if the 911 EV will be just a souped-up Mission R. Since the Boxster/Cayman _are_ going EV, the 911 must either adopt a different architecture, or not go EV at all.

Well the 911 has become such a fat pig with all that junk in the trunk that I expect they’ll have no trouble squeezing a hybrid powertrain in there that retains the basic ethos of the 911.

 

[ThePaddyWan]

Actually EV 911 is exactly what I want. A Targa specifically.

I am DONE with ICE. Full stop. But the 991 Targa is my favorite car of all time.
So I'm driving a Taycan for now until they make the car I want, or something close to it (a Boxster EV perhaps.)

I've been waiting for prices for used 992 GT3 to drop to closer to MSRP after giving up on finding an allocation. Recently though, been thinking given my actual driving behavior, I'd be happier with a 911 Targa. It just checks more boxes.

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