UPDATE4: NHTSA Investigation interview -- WMA5 update removed Innodrive on 2020 4S. Later, engine dies on way to getting it fixed.

f02kbf

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Update 3:

Well I got the car back after about a week and a half with the patch installed to solve the motor control error and a bunch of reset work to get Innodrive and ACC/LK features back.

I drove it for about 100 miles, and so did the dealer and so far no issues. The dealer seemed to have done their best to solve everything, but they are 100% reliant on Porsche Germany and what software they are sent. And because of that there is really no way for someone outside the development stream to actually verify the fix. You just hope that the team that failed at the regression testing and control testing didn't fail this time.

"I fixed it" what did you do? "Applied the patch" What did that do? "..."

So I'm left to test the car with my life. My wife won't get in it. And I've got a 4700lb paperweight in my garage.

Porsche is in over its head. At this point I wish I could just give the car back. The other option I guess is I'll give it about 1000 solo miles of testing and then risk that its safe enough for the family. The final option is to put it in storage and just never ever do business with Porsche again.
I had the exact same experience. I was without my car for four out of five weeks and had to take it to the dealer three times for them to reinstall the update twice after the initial install. The only difference being that after the update my transmission sounds terrible. There’s vibration in it that makes it sound like an ICE when in first gear. It genuinely sounds like I have an ICE with an exhaust system now. I know enough about mechanics to know that the amount of vibration and noise in the powertrain is abnormal and doing some serious damage. Porsche has been useless. At first they took me for a drive in another car but a 2021 where the noise was maybe 5% of the volume and 5% of the time compared to mine. I guess they regretted that and so the next time they invited me back they had a used Taycan with 7k miles on it and the update installed waiting making the same noise. Just proved to me that the update or 2020 is the issue. Anyone would find the amount of noise my car makes absurd. I’m going to start sending videos around to various sites of the noise.
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KensingtonPark

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Those of you whose vehicles spent >30 days into the shop should send an email to Porsche NA and explain your predicament and your disappointment with the experience and the product. They will likely offer an accommodation that will help ease your pain.
 
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f02kbf

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Those of you whose vehicles spent >30 days into the shop should send an email to Porsche NA and explain your predicament and your disappointment with the experience and the product. They will likely offer an accommodation that will help ease your pain.
I was over the lemon law standards for my state. They said because it’s a service campaign, the days don’t count. It wasn’t a repair. I think that’s easily enough argued in court since they admitted to messing up the upgrade. It’s just a headache. I expected Porsche to make things right and without a fight. At the cost of these cars, they can easily swap it out and likely still even make money. It’s absurd. They damaged my car, it’s materially worse than the one I purchased from them yet they can say it’s within spec and move along. I’d invite anyone in the Charlotte, NC area to come for a drive with me. You’ll laugh (or cry) when you hear my car.
 

Vim Schrotnock

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This is clearly a terrible situation, and Porsche really needs to step things up and resolve the 'power loss' issue immediately. Full stop.

I remember Mercedes had all sorts of godawful software problems when they first introduced their 'smart screens'. It lasted a few years I believe, but they eventually sorted it out, and I believe they have pretty much resolved the major issues with software in their cars. It was an absolute disaster when they first introduced the smart screens though. My guess is that we'll see the same type of response from Porsche - a couple years to really get all the bugs out. Not what I want to say or hear, but I'm afraid that is the most likely scenario. :mad:
 

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This is clearly a terrible situation, and Porsche really needs to step things up and resolve the 'power loss' issue immediately. Full stop.

I remember Mercedes had all sorts of godawful software problems when they first introduced their 'smart screens'. It lasted a few years I believe, but they eventually sorted it out, and I believe they have pretty much resolved the major issues with software in their cars. It was an absolute disaster when they first introduced the smart screens though. My guess is that we'll see the same type of response from Porsche - a couple years to really get all the bugs out. Not what I want to say or hear, but I'm afraid that is the most likely scenario. :mad:
That sounds about right. Probably the 2023 model will have less issues.
It took them a year to send out a bug fix for the 12v drain and the fix added this motor control error bug and bricked so many cars to the point dealers stopped deploying the update and they wait for a revision.. So yes, it will take years for software issues to be sorted out.
This makes the OTA update functionality even more important and that is another big miss which makes the problem bigger.
 

f02kbf

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This is clearly a terrible situation, and Porsche really needs to step things up and resolve the 'power loss' issue immediately. Full stop.

I remember Mercedes had all sorts of godawful software problems when they first introduced their 'smart screens'. It lasted a few years I believe, but they eventually sorted it out, and I believe they have pretty much resolved the major issues with software in their cars. It was an absolute disaster when they first introduced the smart screens though. My guess is that we'll see the same type of response from Porsche - a couple years to really get all the bugs out. Not what I want to say or hear, but I'm afraid that is the most likely scenario. :mad:
Clearly they don't know how to deal with the complex software deployments required to update the vehicle. In my case they blamed it on the dealer/tech but that shouldn't be possible. If the procedure isn't done correctly, there should be clear safety stops to warn the tech that there's a mismatch in version or error otherwise. There are very good industry standard ways for determining that your software is fully intact and the upgrade was successful. This is not new technology. These should especially be used when dealing with safety issues. Also, forcing techs to go through the ridiculous upgrade process is insane. They're not IT workers. Any good software shop keeps its techs in mind when developing the procedure. The software should handle the heavy lifting for updates, not the techs. They either don't have the talent or didn't have the time to properly build a robust software update process. Given these failures it seems unlikely we'll ever see OTA for serious updates. They can't even do proper validation when it's in a shop in a controlled environment. I'm so disappointed that a company can install software on your vehicle, damage the powertrain, and leave you out to dry. I have full confidence that if I took legal action I'd get my desired outcome and the issue fixed but at what cost in time, stress, and effort? Instead, I'll make a few videos to publish of the issues online, tell everyone I can to stay away from the car, and move on. It's just sad considering how much I loved the car. I considered buying a 2021 since they seem to have resolved a few of the bugs but ultimately it would still be the same company that failed me so I can't imagine spending more money with them.
 

TaycanAZ

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Update 3:

Well I got the car back after about a week and a half with the patch installed to solve the motor control error and a bunch of reset work to get Innodrive and ACC/LK features back.

I drove it for about 100 miles, and so did the dealer and so far no issues. The dealer seemed to have done their best to solve everything, but they are 100% reliant on Porsche Germany and what software they are sent. And because of that there is really no way for someone outside the development stream to actually verify the fix. You just hope that the team that failed at the regression testing and control testing didn't fail this time.

"I fixed it" what did you do? "Applied the patch" What did that do? "..."

So I'm left to test the car with my life. My wife won't get in it. And I've got a 4700lb paperweight in my garage.

Porsche is in over its head. At this point I wish I could just give the car back. The other option I guess is I'll give it about 1000 solo miles of testing and then risk that its safe enough for the family. The final option is to put it in storage and just never ever do business with Porsche again.
I have same opinion and similar experience. So disappinted with my Turbo.
 
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Chris8536

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Submitted my NHSTA complaint. I told them I would do it at the dealership and there would be an investigation soon. They shrugged. Low and behold the next day…
 

f02kbf

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Submitted my NHSTA complaint. I told them I would do it at the dealership and there would be an investigation soon. They shrugged. Low and behold the next day…
I said the same thing when I contacted Porsche Corporate. They deserve the investigation and negative press for sure. They didn’t handle this well. It goes all the way to the top too, their CEO was aware of my complaint and that I was concerned about the safety of the vehicle.
 
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Chris8536

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Today I got an email interview from the NHTSA and gave them a report of what happened. I informed them that I had already told them the care was unsafe but Porsche NA refused to look at it or solve the issue and two weeks later the car stalled on a dangerous section of Highway 1.
 

SteveDC

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There are some experienced software engineers on this forum, it seems. My question: if this very dangerous problem is, in fact, software related, why aren’t we seeing a much more widespread appearance of the problem? There are 6,500 Taycans in the US according to news reports. So why aren’t we seeing, say, 650 reports, or 100 or 50? At present, just 0.15% of cars are reporting the issue. Is a more likely cause a mismatch of physical tolerances somewhere or a quality control problem on particular components? I'm not for a moment minimizing the danger to those affected. Instead, am asking about likely causes. I’m about to take delivery on a 4S, so you have my interest.
 
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chrisk

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There are some experienced software engineers on this forum, it seems. My question: if this very dangerous problem is, in fact, software related, why aren’t we seeing a much more widespread appearance of the problem? There are 6,500 Taycans in the US according to news reports. So why aren’t we seeing, say, 650 reports, or 100 or 50? At present, just 0.15% of cars are reporting the issue. Is a more likely cause a mismatch of physical tolerances somewhere or a quality control problem on particular components? I'm not for a moment minimizing the danger to those affected. Instead, am asking about likely causes. I’m about to take delivery on a 4S, so you have my interest.
There are two parameters:
1) If the issue was introduced by WMA5 update then only the cars that have the update will be susceptible to the bug so the total number will be drastically less than 6500, which means the % is way higher than 0.15%.
It is unclear if and at what point WMA5 update picked up the DME and PE patches. Same thing for cars that left the factory. It is unclear how many new cars have the bug and if/when the new cars have the patches

2) There are certain conditions that can trigger the bug. Many owners who experienced it reported that they bug appeared after weeks or months after the update, and after several hundred miles. There are certain (unknown to us) conditions that could make the bug more likely to appear including but not limited to how long the car is on, temperatures, SoC, speed, driving mode, driving style etc
 

NC_Taycan

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It's good (?) news that there has been media attention now, even if only limited. Porsche (any auto maker) does not like bad press. Bad press = lower sales for the brand overall, so they will be even more motivated to resolve that bad press (resolve does not necessarily equal fix - it just means make it go away).
 
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