Why is 85% battery recommended as the normal maximum?

B777

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300 miles for a TS.......? the highest I have so far is 240......... and that's really being calm................ :cool:
300 miles for a TS.......? the highest I have so far is 240......... and that's really being calm................ :cool:
Turbo

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felixtb

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Not sure that the after the fact re-charge numbers are too accurate as to the real range of things...... Any way the Turbo is better than the Turbo S in the official numbers so maybe I should still be pretty happy with 240 miles as even going slow in my mind I still have to roam the horizon for any eventual blue flashing lights that might be around the corner or coming up from behind....... :bandit:
 

evanevery

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on the Turbo S the mileage is pretty low so it does become an annoyance since you reduce an already low mileage by another 15%..........
IMHO: If you need the additional 15% on a daily basis then maybe you should have considered a model/brand with more range. 200 miles is my minimum range and thats only because my "average" day is 50 miles or less. Even "average" days can get a bit longer with extra trips to the store/airport etc so maybe even 120-140 miles on a "long" average day... Its having a huge reserve that really eliminates any range anxiety or the need to pre-plan every day. If your needing that extra 15% every day, it doesn't sound like you have that reserve...
 
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zeebee2

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Just in case there is any doubt about max daily charging - see the following directly from Porsche

https://www.porsche.com/uk/accessoriesandservice/porscheservice/vehicleinformation/bev/

"A lithium-ion battery is subject to physical and chemical ageing, as well as wear and tear. This reduces the battery capacity, depending on the usage pattern and environmental conditions, resulting in a reduction in range and an increase in charging times as the battery ages. Due to the effect of temperature on battery and charging performance, as well as battery life, please consider the following when parking, driving and charging your car:

If possible, avoid permanent ambient temperatures of over 30°C, such as prolonged parking in direct sunlight.

If you cannot avoid ambient temperatures of over 30°C when stationary, connect the vehicle to the mains supply after use and charge the high-voltage battery with AC (alternating current) to a maximum charge status of 85%.

If the car is left stationary for more than two weeks, the ambient temperature should, if possible, be between 0°C and 20°C and the battery charge status maintained between 20% and 50% during this time.
For the shortest possible charging time, a battery temperature of approx. 30°C to 35°C is ideal.

If charging the car on a daily basis, the maximum charge status of the high-voltage battery should be set to approx. 80%."


Both the dealer and the 'product expert' at my dealership were unaware of this until I brought it up with them. I have probably done irrecoverable damage to my battery by following their previous incorrect advice of daily charging to 100 percent daily.
 

evanevery

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So, the Porsche owners manual (page 66 I'm told) says daily charging to 85% and the official Porsche link you provided says 80%? Its no wonder folks are confused...
 

porsche_coyote

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Straight from the horse's mouth.... But feel free to believe Porsche actually puts much larger battery packs without advertising to allow for the mythical large buffer at the top

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There are actually fairly detailed specs floating around out there. In particular, see the Jalopnik piece here:

https://jalopnik.com/an-extremely-detailed-look-at-the-porsche-taycans-engin-1837802533

Where it mentions

The Taycan’s battery pack consists of 33 cell modules, each of which contains 12 individual 64.6 amp-hour LG pouch cells. They are arranged such that half of the cells, 198, are in parallel with the other half. The big number that’s been thrown around for years now is “800,” as it’s a rather high system voltage for an EV.

In the case of the Taycan, the actual voltage sits somewhere between 610 (depleted) and 835 volts (when full), with a nominal voltage of 723 volts. Maximum energy content is 93.4 kWh, which is a bit less than the Tesla Model S at 100 kWh.
This would seem to suggest that the gross capacity is pretty close to what they say if you do the math:

Since the pack is a 198S 2P configuration, simply take the following:

Multiply cell Amp-hour rating by 2 to get the total Amp-hour figure:
64.6 Ah * 2= 129.2 Ah

multiply by the 723V nominal pack voltage to get the Watt-hour figure:

129.2Ah * 723V = 93.4116 kWh

Sounds pretty close to me.

And that means that the cell voltage is a range of 3.08V (empty) to 4.16V (full), nominally 3.65V. Which sounds like a fairly good modern Lithium Ion cell, but nothing exotic.
 
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svp6

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Yes, that's all I got too Felix. Also, in a Turbo in Range mode for half of the trip I got about 200 based on remaining battery percentage.
I can totally understand the lower range you see in real life - the car begs to push it ;)

The data though is from California turbo S user (the 70 mph / 300 mi range) and from Germany (the 80 mph - 250 miles). OF course, that is just range mode on autopilot and minimal interference from the driver. Hard to drive the Taycan like that, but in a pinch it can be done.
 

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Actually I should have added that it was charged to 85% before I set off. so that would be 200miles plus 15% in theory. You are quite correct, the Taycan does beg for it to be "driven". The first half of the journey was driven in a "spirited" way but not too hard. I was pretty careful after I realised I would be only a few miles off empty when I got back :)

I think the whole charging to 85% is an annoyance that quickly goes away when you get used to how much driving you really need to do each day. I'm so used to filling my petrol tank to the brim that I automatically want to do the same.. and even more so when the "tanks" range is lower or I can't just fill it up almost anywhere in a few minutes.
 

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@feye Whilst it may be true that there is a sizeable top buffer it is very unlikely based on current information available. I would agree with svp6 - there is little to no top buffer and charging to 100% will reduce battery life as the manual makes clear.
Most new owners will not read the manual in detail and my dealer charged my car to 100%. Do we really think Porsche wants a lot of unhappy customers in a couple of years with their first major new car in decades? If in a few years the battery indeed degraded quite a bit, I have options:

1. Live with it. I am not a range junkie.
2. Sell and buy Audi again.
3. Sell and buy another Taycan.

Since none of these options scare me, I follow the ignorant crowd. :like:
 

feye

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If possible, avoid permanent ambient temperatures of over 30°C, such as prolonged parking in direct sunlight.
I have 4 months a year with permanent temp above 30°C. Will be interesting to see, how much degradation I will see in a few years...
 

epirali

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Totally agree. I'd prefer to charge to 100% as well. And I do plan on charging every day. I want to make it a habit after I park in my garage to plug in the charger, otherwise I'm afraid I might forget to plug it in when I should. Isn't there a buffer (as mentioned above) that keeps you from charging to such a high level that you'd harm the battery?

I am a bit confused. First leaving the car at full charge extended periods of time will cause more degradation than not, but how much depends on conditions.

Second it is easy enough to plug in always AND not go to 100%. Just set the general profile to a minimum charge of say 85%. Then just come home and plug in. The car will charge to 85% and stop. Unless you need the full range for some reason why charge to 100%? What is the advantage.

Batteries are primarily “aged” by full charge cycles (that is total charge from 0 to 100, whether it is done in the middle or from top to bottom), but also from staying at very high or very low charge states, temperature (which is regulated in the newer cars including the Taycan and always has been in Teslas).

But if you want to just charge to 100% all the time you will have less regen available initially. And you may pay a small price in long term longevity. As long as you are ok with that. Porsche does explicitly recommend 85% while some others (like Jaguar) do not. And maybe that has something to do with their particular battery architecture.

I for one tend to leave my EVs around 40-60% most of the time. Its just habit, and I guess I have had enough of them that is just kind of makes sense to me. I even leave my i8 battery at around 40% and only charge when I know I am going to drive it. I always idle the Taycan at 40% and use departure timing for optimal charge every day. I have a few ”timers” with different charge levels I enabled the night before depending on how much range I need.
 

felixtb

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Just have the general set on 90% and plug in every night..... I do not have a very fixed schedule so never really know where I need to go and how far..... And since the Taycan has a pretty dismal onboard charger I seldom have time to wait more than about 20 mins to charge to 100% so having it charged to 90% very morning is perfect..... for my use case.
 

bangersandmash

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same here I set my EVs to 90%, but I charger once or twice a week
 

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I personally recommend all of my clients charge their vehicles up to 85% on a daily basis. It is so easy to turn on Direct Charging to 100% either on your Porsche Connect app, or inside the car just before your planned road trip.

I tell my clients to think of their battery like an inflatable pool. Sure you can fill it up to the brim every single time, but you might only want to do that when you're having a big party and know you're going to be splashing out the water all day. Otherwise, you risk overfilling the tub causing damage to the sides of the pool. An 85% full inflatable pool doesn't waste any water and keeps the tub in tact.

Hope that analogy kinda makes sense...
 

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And with the 2021 changes, Porsche wants us to keep the battery fast charging to 200 kw, battery degradation, of course I have never seen rates close to that when fast charging.

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