GM follows Ford with NACS Tesla charge port adoption -- time to ditch CCS1 (at least the physcial design)

[whitex]

Subject to interpretation of course, but I seem to have inadvertently uncovered evidence that Tesla Magic Docks are already distinguishing between different vehicle types, even among manufacturers that do not yet have access to TSCN, and even among cars that lack P&C.

As for how this test was inadvertently conducted:

• Opened the app this morning at Brewster NY Magic Dock, but after two attempts charger 1A would not detect my Taycan. I have previously charged successfully at this specific location and charger (since it’s the sole pull-by charger, as opposed to the other drive-in chargers).
• Switched to another charger (successfully parking as Tesla originally intended, thanks to Lift for pulling able to drive in far enough). Same error message.
• Totally baffled (with mild panic starting to set it) … hmm … last summer I successfully charged at this Magic Dock location with my Taycan and this phone … last summer I successfully charged at another Magic Dock location with this car and this phone … last week we successfully charged at another Magic Dock with my wife’s i4 and this phone … oh wait, what are the current Tesla app vehicle settings on this phone?

Yes, that’s right – or rather, wrong – I had been playing around with different vehicle settings in my app, and the only one there this morning was my wife’s i4 but I was in my Taycan, whoops!

(At the time earlier this year when I was playing around with the settings, I might have noted then that I had not added Other back in for my Porsche, thinking, Eh, what's the difference, if a marque isn't authorized, it isn't authorized?")

Changed the vehicle to Other (as Porsche is oddly enough still not listed), and then everything was fine.

So I think all that shows how Tesla is somehow able to detect whether a vehicle is a BMW EV, even though BMW currently has no authorization for TSCN (other than the universal Magic Docks for all CCS1), and even though our i4 is March 2023 production before the iDrive update (from 8.0 to 9.0) from August 2023 that added P&C.

Did you have PnC enabled? I wonder if it would have worked if you had it disabled, as I suspect Tesla can retrieve a manufacturer from PnC (perhaps by retrieving a VIN). Tesla might not trust said identification for billing purposes, but they could add this manufacturer check as a convenience feature, to reduce user mistakes.

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[Jonathan S.]

Yes, PnC is enabled on my Taycan.
But our i4 is not equipped at all with PnC.

I suppose the case could be made that the Magic Dock detected I was trying to charge a Taycan via PnC, which therefore allowed it to conclude that I did not have a BMW as my app was telling the Magic Dock.
But either way that seems to be good news for Taycan TSCN access (in early 2025, sigh), as Tesla is already able to tell apart different marques, regardless of whether they have PnC, and regardless of whether they're ready for TSCN access.

 

[whitex]

Tesla is already able to tell apart different marques, regardless of whether they have PnC, and regardless of whether they're ready for TSCN access.

How did you conclude that? I missed some dots in between. It could be that identifying a brand/model only happens with PnC, with all non-PnC cars falling into "unknown brand/model" category. Also, identifying brand/model is not enough for billing, as the latter needs to be trusted/secured way of authenticating individual cars. Lastly, it seems there are additional conditions that Tesla set out for joining the TSCN which currently Porsche does not meet (I've speculated on those in other threads, things like secure authentication that Tesla trusts for billing as well as revocation, possibly additional telemetry from the car's battery which might be the price of entry - Tesla loves data). I'd love to get access to TSCN, but being a realist, I am not even certain that Taycan Gen1 will ever get it outside of Magic Docs. Perhaps the 2025 date was provided by Porsche because only 2025 Macan EV and Taycan will get adapter TSCN access, with some later model years (once EA deploys enough NACS) getting native NACS support. The best chance we have is Elon giving in and allowing Gen 1 Taycans to use adapters without fulfilling all of his requirements, as I suspect those would require a new onboard charger retrofit (just like enabling PnC - should only be a software change, but required a whole new hardware brick), and those retrofits are so expensive Porsche might not even bother offering them (no ROI on investment for them if very few people would upgrade).

 

[Jonathan S.]

My reasoning (correct or otherwise!) is something like the following:

1. Tesla clearly wants the DCFC income (unlike EA, which appears indifferent at best).
2. Tesla now has the entire CCS1 universe on board, so elaborate measures to exclude anyone come 2025 serve no apparent purpose (and although Elon often takes actions that serve no apparent purpose for other aspects of Tesla or his other ventures, whether business or personal, everything about TSCN makes sense).
3. Tesla clearly is competent with all aspects of the technology for its DCFC network (ditto re first prior parenthetical aside, but only the first clause).
4. Payment can be via the app, as it already is for Magic Docks, so excluding EVs incapable of PnC would not serve any purpose.
5. Magic Docks already are exactly the same as charging at a V3 with your own adapter, except the adapter is automatically deployed instead of Bring Yer Own Adapter.
6. Magic Docks are already capable of determining that a PnC Taycan is not a pre-PnC BMW, which means that some level of marque ID is already deployed, despite how BMW does not yet have access out of Magic Docks.

In summary, if there’s a will, there’s a way (well, not always…), and here #1-2 = will, and #3-6 = way.

I think we need to come up with some sort of wager here, like, if I'm able to charge my Taycan at a V3 by first quarter 2025, the whitex covers the cost of my first charging session ... if not, then I owe him a Magic Dock session!

 

[whitex]

My reasoning (correct or otherwise!) is something like the following:

1. Tesla clearly wants the DCFC income (unlike EA, which appears indifferent at best).
2. Tesla now has the entire CCS1 universe on board, so elaborate measures to exclude anyone come 2025 serve no apparent purpose (and although Elon often takes actions that serve no apparent purpose for other aspects of Tesla or his other ventures, whether business or personal, everything about TSCN makes sense).
3. Tesla clearly is competent with all aspects of the technology for its DCFC network (ditto re first prior parenthetical aside, but only the first clause).
4. Payment can be via the app, as it already is for Magic Docks, so excluding EVs incapable of PnC would not serve any purpose.
5. Magic Docks already are exactly the same as charging at a V3 with your own adapter, except the adapter is automatically deployed instead of Bring Yer Own Adapter.
6. Magic Docks are already capable of determining that a PnC Taycan is not a pre-PnC BMW, which means that some level of marque ID is already deployed, despite how BMW does not yet have access out of Magic Docks.

In summary, if there’s a will, there’s a way (well, not always…), and here #1-2 = will, and #3-6 = way.

I think we need to come up with some sort of wager here, like, if I'm able to charge my Taycan at a V3 by first quarter 2025, the whitex covers the cost of my first charging session ... if not, then I owe him a Magic Dock session!

Ok, I'll bite. If all your points were true, why are we all not able to just buy an adapter today and charge using the Tesla app? Tesla surely could use additional revenue, no? Furthermore, if your #2 is correct, why bother with brand/model recognition at all?

 

[Jonathan S.]

Some combination of:

1. Punishment for those car manufacturers who were late to kiss Elon's ring.
2. Phase in the different EV models in waves just in case any technical issues arise, so easier to deal with them one manufacturer at a time, rather than possibly be overwhelmed with an onslaught of such issues.
3. Allow more time to build more stations so that Tesla drivers aren't suddenly competing with the entire universe of disgruntled CCS1 drivers (although I'm always surprised by how empty the Brewster NY location is, although perhaps other drivers like me have been taking awhile to realize that it's actually along the way to NYC if coming via I-91 or I-84).

 

[whitex]

Some combination of:

1. Punishment for those car manufacturers who were late to kiss Elon's ring.
2. Phase in the different EV models in waves just in case any technical issues arise, so easier to deal with them one manufacturer at a time, rather than possibly be overwhelmed with an onslaught of such issues.
3. Allow more time to build more stations so that Tesla drivers aren't suddenly competing with the entire universe of disgruntled CCS1 drivers (although I'm always surprised by how empty the Brewster NY location is, although perhaps other drivers like me have been taking awhile to realize that it's actually along the way to NYC if coming via I-91 or I-84).

As you pointed out, Tesla can tell a Porsche from a non-Porsche, at least with PnC, and there aren't enough of them in the US to cause a flood. And yet, Porsche is not even on the list of upcoming cars in the app. Are you thinking Porsche is still refusing to kiss the ring?

PS> The only disruption I can think of that Taycans could cause is a bunch of slow charging stock Taycans missing the 400V/150KW upgrade, but that would be a disruption at any time they are allowed to join, unless we get access only to 800V capable superchargers, but those are V4 (future function of V4) which are already equipped with Magic Dock.

PS2> Now that I think about it, it just dawned on me that Magic Docks may be Tesla's way to pipeclean their 400V/800V V4 stations, since on Tesla side only Cybertrucks are 800V and there are way fewer of them than other 800V EV's in the USA. Genius! Let's see if we start getting reports of Taycans charging >150KW via Magic Docks - that would be a V4 with 800V beta software.

 

[Jonathan S.]

Yes, the lack of a Porsche selection in the app is puzzling.
But can’t the reason can’t be the charging speed for drivers who lack the 150 option since those vehicles must be a negligible percentage of all those stuck at 50 (Bolt and also Lucid).

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