Hate for electrics saddens me.

[bluedonkey]

Looking briefly at my trip history, the difference is significant - .3 to .5 mi/kWh, or almost 30% better in summer. (1.9 and 1.7 winter vs 2.2 summer, both on trips up into the mountains.) This is for almost identical trips regarding distance, average speed and on the same tires/roof box.
Weirdly, my return trips in the winter appear to be more efficient than the same in the summer - 3.7 winter (@49mph) vs 2.9 summer (@56mph). I suspect I may have overindulged on the accelerator for this particular summer trip..

How are you getting 3.7? The best I've seen has been 3.2, normally I max out at 3.0. I don't really do absolutely identical drives, so I don't have a direct comparison, but my longer winter drives tend to be around 2.9, sometimes even 3.0 (30-40 miles minimum). Short drives of a few miles suffer badly, often dropping below 2.

Here's a good selection of Dec/Jan ones showing the huge difference for short distances compared to the one longer (40 miles) trip. A 9 mile trip, around the same time of day, recently averaged 2.7 mi/kWh compared to that 2.2 in the screenshot. But my longer drives are still only 3.0 (I did a 94 mile drive at the end of July and it was only 3.0).

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[Amelio]

Great post!
Add to list: “I will never give up my blackberry keyboard”
refusal to go to CDs because of the warmth of vinyl. Similar argument against streaming…too low a bit rate!

Some of life's improvements that people poo pooed at first albeit can't live without now. Miicrowaves, hair blowers, telephone answering machines(voice mail), LED lights, internet, smartphones......Future Shock. Technology breeds technology. They hate it today but ultimately will have an EV or maybe some other alternative power sourced vehicle.
Congratulations all you early adopters.

 

[bluedonkey]

Good points, but I'd respectfully disagree with your statement about EVs only symbolically contributing something to the planet. At the very minimum, EVs are keeping the air cleaner. If you don't believe this, sit in your ICE vehicle with the engine running and your garage door closed for a few minutes and you will have a better appreciation for just how dirty ICE technology is.

Or even just back up to a wall, and run the engine for a few minutes with the exhaust aimed at the wall - the apartment I used to live in banned people from reversing into spaces because they didn't want the soot on their walls! If that isn't hitting the wall, it ends up in the air, and in our lungs, or in the drinking water.

EVs might not remove all the emissions, but zero tailpipe, and much reduced brake dust (the two nobody disagrees on) is a huge reduction in overall pollution, and especially in pollution around where we live and work.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

How are you getting 3.7? The best I've seen has been 3.2, normally I max out at 3.0. I don't really do absolutely identical drives, so I don't have a direct comparison, but my longer winter drives tend to be around 2.9, sometimes even 3.0 (30-40 miles minimum). Short drives of a few miles suffer badly, often dropping below 2.

Sorry, I should have stated it clearer - these (regular) trips are in pairs, up to a mountain pass and then the return trip down. Elevation gain is ~4k ft, from ~500 to 4,500. The 'up' trips are obviously 'accumulating' (potential) energy in the car, and so the 'down' trips are artificially efficient based solely on electrical energy consumption. (It's pretty funny, actually, to drive down the mountain like a lunatic and see the battery SoC increase ?.)

For 'up', the range is 1.6 (cold day, snow all the way down into the valley) to 2.2 (summer); the 'down', the range is 3 to 4.

This is an excerpt of trip data, filtered for distances between 50 and 80. (Includes a few non-mountain trips, and I missed out on a few that were too short apart, and so were merged into one.)

 

[CinVinman]

Driving the Tacan is a breathtaking experience - but so is watching it depreciate. Never seeing a gas station locally is as awesome as planning a trip over 200 miles RT is awful. When the Tacan has an issue - not recognizing a key, for example, it locks up and must be towed. There are pluses and minuses. I see hate here from both sides. Emissions down whilst driving, emissions up building batteries. To the haters, it's too soon to judge, to the loyalists, it's far from a perfect world. I won't be going back to electric until charging time is reduced by at least a third and range increase by half. Your mileage may vary.... .

 

[Tsingtao]

That’s fine but don’t mistake my comments as an indication of my level of understanding of the situation or my appreciation of the merits of EV’s. My major disagreements aren’t with the issues being discussed here, they are with the way this issue is being represented and the policies being put in place to address them. Both of those topics are not ones that I would even attempt to debate in the context of a recreational forum such as this.

And to be clear, I am not a troll, I am an avid car enthusiast who is excited about the future so long as that future isn’t one dictated by government fiat or radical social activism.

Rest assured, I wouldn't extend AOC (or her radical ilk) the courtesy of urinating in her face even if her mouth was on fire. But the world needs to accept scientific facts sooner rather than later or we may all find ourselves living under a white sky.

 

[Fish Fingers]

It seems like the popular thing to do. I’m convinced it’s a lack of understanding. Some people get angry when they don’t understand something.

While in England I got into a heated discussion about EVs with an Uber driver. The conversation went poorly. My wife was worried she would get a bad review by the driver and said it felt uncomfortable being in the car. I felt bad and apologize to her and promised I wouldn’t do that again. This guy was convinced electricity cost more than gas.

A favourite author of mine James Clear (Atomic Habits) has a great way of handling people like this.

imagine the time you would save by simply saying: you might be right…and moving on?

I know it seems ridiculous to agree with people like this but you must admit it’s a heck of a lot easier than arguing with them for 20 minutes or so about how they can’t wait for an EV to charge, how producing lithium batteries damages environment more than burning fossil fuel, they don’t have enough range, can’t afford the insurance., and the list goes on.

it’s quite liberating not to get into it with them. Let them fill up their gas tanks, you charge up your batteries, and we all move on.

I sometimes bite my tongue and try and remember the old Mark Twain quote:

"Never argue with stupid people.
They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience'.

 

[Jonathan S.]

I sometimes bite my tongue and try and remember the old Mark Twain quote:

"Never argue with stupid people.
They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience'.

The irony is that he never said or wrote anything like that.
(Although it is often attributed to him.)

 

[RGBArgee]

I don't get hate for EV's over here, but there is a huge lack of knowledge and a lot of disinformation about them in the UK. Right wing newspapers/media run a load of awful stories with badly researched or totally false claims and it really does influence people.

It is indeed. Many Tory supporters and Brexiteer types it seems hate EVs and will find any excuse to rubbish such things. Even Porsche owners sadly, usually the above dressed in tweed, green wellies and with Vanity plate obsessions!!Sad country the UK has become- we need a General Election!

 

[kempez]

It is indeed. Many Tory supporters and Brexiteer types it seems hate EVs and will find any excuse to rubbish such things. Even Porsche owners sadly, usually the above dressed in tweed, green wellies and with Vanity plate obsessions!!Sad country the UK has become- we need a General Election!

100%

 

[f1eng]

It is indeed. Many Tory supporters and Brexiteer types it seems hate EVs and will find any excuse to rubbish such things. Even Porsche owners sadly, usually the above dressed in tweed, green wellies and with Vanity plate obsessions!!Sad country the UK has become- we need a General Election!

Quite so.
Their ignorance is damaging and they are easily led

 

[RGBArgee]

Quite so.
Their ignorance is damaging and they are easily led

The UK is a Strange country at the moment where bling and lies? appear to be regarded more highly than professional competence and decency. We can even spend more than 3 months in the EU

 

[AlexR]

3 cents

1. Noise issue is a funny one for me. ICE "judge" EV for using "fake noise" from speakers inside/out of the car. As has been said, ICE does the same now, but also has exaggerated noise through increasingly complex exhaust pipes. The engine does not naturally make this noise, we put in place systems to create and exaggerate, often to the detriment of emissions. Whether I attach a speaker to my car or an organ, I am still making noise that the car need not make to perform its function.

2. EVs use low-resistance tyres generally - presumably less particulates from such tyres? I am no expert though and presume Taycans don't use this type!

3. As has been said - a fraction of the brake dust v an ICE.

EVs solve for city-center pollution but of course create their own issues as have been covered. CC pollution kills 10s of thousands a year in London alone (or is a contributory factor) - so there is a tangible, immediate benefit and now we need to solve for lithium etc - which will happen, no doubt.

 

[optik382]

A good article re: overall costs, and particularly energy costs:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/clim...vs-gasoline/?itid=hp-top-table-main_p001_f004

It's almost laughable to me that someone would run a calculation that ended up with lower costs for octane fuel... but I guess if you compare a Hummer EV to a Civic or Yaris, maybe. Hah.

 

[Jonathan S.]

A good article re: overall costs, and particularly energy costs:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/clim...vs-gasoline/?itid=hp-top-table-main_p001_f004

It's almost laughable to me that someone would run a calculation that ended up with lower costs for octane fuel... but I guess if you compare a Hummer EV to a Civic or Yaris, maybe. Hah.

The economist cited in that article tried to have actions taken against me by the moderators of an economics email list for writing pretty much the same thing.
(I know that sounds absurd, which was also my reaction at the time.)

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