Model 3 vs. Taycan Turbo S Track Race

Rcrewse7

Active Member
First Name
Rob
Joined
Feb 3, 2021
Messages
40
Reaction score
32
Location
Arizona, USA
Vehicles
2021 Taycan 4S (on order), 2013 G550, 2016 Metris
Country flag
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-dominates-porsche-taycan-racetrack/

I certainly have respect for what Tesla has done for bringing EV’s into the mainstream, providing a great value for price, etc. and give credit where credit is due. Despite the positive feedback I give to Tesla’s, I’ve heard an unsurprising amount of jabber and detracting comments from a couple of Tesla Fanboys over my purchase of the Taycan 4S (which should finally get delivered in the next few days!)

When this article was shared with me, along with the message that, “looks like Tesla’s don’t just drive fast in a straight line!” I was a little surprised to hear that a (modded) Model 3 took the overall win in this EV race, although the Turbo S in the race did have the fastest single lap.

While there are many variables here which we’re not privy to, I wonder why a Turbo S which achieved a faster single lap, and supposedly has better motor/battery cooling properties that the Tesla, didn’t win the race outright.

Thoughts?





Advertisement

 

ElectricSoul

Active Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
28
Reaction score
39
Location
Switzerland
Vehicles
Planning on ordering Cross Turismo
Country flag
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-dominates-porsche-taycan-racetrack/

I certainly have respect for what Tesla has done for bringing EV’s into the mainstream, providing a great value for price, etc. and give credit where credit is due. Despite the positive feedback I give to Tesla’s, I’ve heard an unsurprising amount of jabber and detracting comments from a couple of Tesla Fanboys over my purchase of the Taycan 4S (which should finally get delivered in the next few days!)

When this article was shared with me, along with the message that, “looks like Tesla’s don’t just drive fast in a straight line!” I was a little surprised to hear that a (modded) Model 3 took the overall win in this EV race, although the Turbo S in the race did have the fastest single lap.

While there are many variables here which we’re not privy to, I wonder why a Turbo S which achieved a faster single lap, and supposedly has better motor/battery cooling properties that the Tesla, didn’t win the race outright.

Thoughts?
I would hope that to some extent the race outcome still partially depends on the driver's performance, rather than the car's. Not familiar with the All-Japan EV Grand Prix drivers though, so don't know if that explains it.
 

rs38

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2020
Messages
78
Reaction score
36
Location
Germany
Vehicles
taycan,gt2,i8,i3,
Country flag
🍿 :subscribed:

if there ever will be a full disclosure?
 

YWGT3

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2020
Messages
70
Reaction score
77
Location
Bay Area, CA
Vehicles
Porsche Taycan Turbo, BMW i8, BMW 650i
Country flag
You can have the fastest and best-handling track car and still not come out on top. The driver is the quotient that makes for the difference. A while back, Louv was lapping higher performance track cars at Laguna Seca, that is until his BMW i8 ran out of electrons.
 
OP

Rcrewse7

Active Member
First Name
Rob
Joined
Feb 3, 2021
Messages
40
Reaction score
32
Location
Arizona, USA
Vehicles
2021 Taycan 4S (on order), 2013 G550, 2016 Metris
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #6
Acknowledging that the driver is a huge variable, the progressive increase in successive lap times is what’s somewhat surprising.

I know part of what makes for more repeatable (acceleration) performance on the Taycan’s are the dual permanent magnet motors. Model 3’s use a permanent magnet rear along with an AC induction front, which is harder to get heat out of and causes performance degradation.
 

kreshi

Well-Known Member
First Name
Kreshi
Joined
Feb 4, 2021
Messages
246
Reaction score
442
Location
Switzerland
Vehicles
Taycan 4s
Country flag
All I can say to that is: you did not buy the Taycan 4S because you want the fastest EV or car in general. There are so many more things to a car.

Compare it even to a Model S P100D Raven, to the regular Taycan 4S.
Yes you can accelerate quicker, but just walking up to the Taycan, taking the seat, getting the feel of the steering wheel. It is a whole different world.

If other people get to you with mostly imaginary Tesla numbers, tell them to park them side by side and see how the general public reacts. I am not used to all the staring that is happening since I picked my 4S up. I can't go grab a snack at a petrol station without getting stares or even people starting conversations.

Don't let some random numbers or internet trolls get to you. ✌
 

daveo4EV

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Messages
2,064
Reaction score
3,203
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
Tesla(s), 911 GT3, Boxster S, Bolt, Taycan, Cayenn
Country flag
this does not surprise me the Model 3 is proper quick and handles decently - if you swap the brakes and shocks and suspension you can make it even better - it's also lighter than the Taycan by almost 1,000 lbs - and the two cars have about the same amount of "on track" stamina - in that they both overheat at Laguna after about 5 or 6 full pace laps - but are great up until then.

driver will matter and consistency will matter.

neither vehicle is a track car and shouldn't be measured as such.
 

Kryptos

Active Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2021
Messages
28
Reaction score
17
Location
Boston, MA
Vehicles
'21 Taycan 4S
Country flag
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-dominates-porsche-taycan-racetrack/

I certainly have respect for what Tesla has done for bringing EV’s into the mainstream, providing a great value for price, etc. and give credit where credit is due. Despite the positive feedback I give to Tesla’s, I’ve heard an unsurprising amount of jabber and detracting comments from a couple of Tesla Fanboys over my purchase of the Taycan 4S (which should finally get delivered in the next few days!)

When this article was shared with me, along with the message that, “looks like Tesla’s don’t just drive fast in a straight line!” I was a little surprised to hear that a (modded) Model 3 took the overall win in this EV race, although the Turbo S in the race did have the fastest single lap.

While there are many variables here which we’re not privy to, I wonder why a Turbo S which achieved a faster single lap, and supposedly has better motor/battery cooling properties that the Tesla, didn’t win the race outright.

Thoughts?
A single race with heavily modded cars and drivers of unknown talent disparities where Teslas outnumbered Taycans 5:1 means you can conclude exactly zero from this. AlphaTauri won a Grand Prix last year, but no one on earth would claim that they have the fastest car (even that day) in Formula One. There are a million variables that dictate the winner of any single race beyond the car - driver talent, crew experience, tire/pit strategy, luck. If they ran 20 races and Model 3s won two-thirds of them (with a more equal representation between the two manufacturers), then there would be a conversation to have. I'm not a Tesla-denier by any means; it's just a non-experiment.
 
Last edited:

daveo4EV

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Messages
2,064
Reaction score
3,203
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
Tesla(s), 911 GT3, Boxster S, Bolt, Taycan, Cayenn
Country flag
supposedly has better motor/battery cooling properties that the Tesla
based on my personal experience with both cars @Laguna Seca this is not entirely true - and the the comparison is vs. the Model S - while Porsche was designing the Taycan using the Model S as a benchmark - Tesla went ahead and rolled a bunch of changes/improvements into the Model 3 and it's a radically better EV than the Model S - Porsche's "lead" vs. the Model 3 is a much narrower gap than Porsche marketing would lead to believe and the real world difference is negligible for the two cars. Porsche also only claims "repeatable" performance for launches - but has been notably quiet about on-track stamina.

based on internet videos the Model 3 for back to back launches offers similar performance to the Taycan - while the Model S clearly fails at this metric. Porsche picked their claim(s) very carefully -but is silent on a. number of other characteristics regarding the Taycan.

My personal experience tracking both the vehicles is that they are about the same in terms of back to back hot laps at any given track - with both the Taycan and Model 3 being worlds better than the Model S

where Porsche is clearly superior is "off the lot" performance - to Track a Model 3 you simply must upgrade the brakes & suspension and shocks - but the drive train is solid and at least as capable as the Taycan - but again even with the upgrades you'll come in at 1/2 the cost of a Taycan for a car that can do about as many laps as the Taycan at a given track with similar lap times - both will suffer battery thermal power reductions and consumption will be very very high and unless there is fast charging at the track the number of overall laps will be severely limited.

the Model S has proven to be an enduring comparison point and many many people don't realize that Tesla has moved on and the 3 is an impressive vehicle for price and technology and performance - continuous comparisons by Porsche faithful agains the Model S while ignoring the Model 3 does little in my eyes to bolster their credibility - and as an owner of a Taycan the performance differences between the 3 and the Taycan are not that vast.

I drive the Taycan for other reasons, but for performance the 3 is a very very serious competitor and deserves respect - it’s also been a very successful automobile world wide by any automotive standard. Don’t believe the fans boys, but also keep in mind the Model for it’s price point is perhaps the best value for money available today - and we all would enjoy the reliability and ease of use of Tesla’s supercharger network which is currently the best EV fast charging network in north america…

the Model 3 deserves respect and it’s a very capable platform. The Taycan is too much money for what it is and offers, but I love getting into it every day and has a number of non-performance value propositions above/beyond the Model 3 (OTA updates is not one of them).

both cars have their place and both are EV’s - so that’s progress - 3 years ago no one would be talking about how fast an EV was on track...

we’re still early days here in this transition - Taycan is good, but not the king of the mountain in any way shape or form - and Tesla and Porsche are the best EV’s for purchase right now but that will also change…it’s exciting - we’re soon to see ongoing yearly improvements in everything and it will only get better from here on out.
 
Last edited:

KensingtonPark

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2019
Messages
534
Reaction score
352
Location
New York, NY
Vehicles
2020 Porsche Taycan 4S; 2020 Audi A7; 2019 Hyundai Elantra GT; 2020 Hyundai Kona Ultimate
Country flag
Well said, @daveo4EV! I liked this post and had to add a written response for emphasis. Objective, accurate and totally aligned with my views on this subject.
 

daveo4EV

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Messages
2,064
Reaction score
3,203
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
Tesla(s), 911 GT3, Boxster S, Bolt, Taycan, Cayenn
Country flag
there is only one track car in the following 3 photos/videos - the other 2 can be tracked but really not what they are for…

- 2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance w/Trackmode
- 2018 Porsche 911 GT3
- 2020 Porsche Taycan Turbo

IMG_0762.jpeg
LS-12-5-2020-Porsche773-3321.jpg
GBME0122.JPG
 

rich_r

Well-Known Member
First Name
RIch
Joined
Feb 1, 2021
Messages
140
Reaction score
133
Location
USA
Vehicles
Range Rover sport
Country flag
based on my personal experience with both cars @Laguna Seca this is not entirely true - and the the comparison is vs. the Model S - while Porsche was designing the Taycan using the Model S as a benchmark - Tesla went ahead and rolled a bunch of changes/improvements into the Model 3 and it's a radically better EV than the Model S - Porsche's "lead" vs. the Model 3 is a much narrower gap than Porsche marketing would lead to believe and the real world difference is negligible for the two cars. Porsche also only claims "repeatable" performance for launches - but has been notably quiet about on-track stamina.

based on internet videos the Model 3 for back to back launches offers similar performance to the Taycan - while the Model S clearly fails at this metric. Porsche picked their claim(s) very carefully -but is silent on a. number of other characteristics regarding the Taycan.

My personal experience tracking both the vehicles is that they are about the same in terms of back to back hot laps at any given track - with both the Taycan and Model 3 being worlds better than the Model S

where Porsche is clearly superior is "off the lot" performance - to Track a Model 3 you simply must upgrade the brakes & suspension and shocks - but the drive train is solid and at least as capable as the Taycan - but again even with the upgrades you'll come in at 1/2 the cost of a Taycan for a car that can do about as many laps as the Taycan at a given track with similar lap times - both will suffer battery thermal power reductions and consumption will be very very high and unless there is fast charging at the track the number of overall laps will be severely limited.

the Model S has proven to be an enduring comparison point and many many people don't realize that Tesla has moved on and the 3 is an impressive vehicle for price and technology and performance - continuous comparisons by Porsche faithful agains the Model S while ignoring the Model 3 does little in my eyes to bolster their credibility - and as an owner of a Taycan the performance differences between the 3 and the Taycan are not that vast.

I drive the Taycan for other reasons, but for performance the 3 is a very very serious competitor and deserves respect - it’s also been a very successful automobile world wide by any automotive standard. Don’t believe the fans boys, but also keep in mind the Model for it’s price point is perhaps the best value for money available today - and we all would enjoy the reliability and ease of use of Tesla’s supercharger network which is currently the best EV fast charging network in north america…

the Model 3 deserves respect and it’s a very capable platform. The Taycan is too much money for what it is and offers, but I love getting into it every day and has a number of non-performance value propositions above/beyond the Model 3 (OTA updates is not one of them).

both cars have their place and both are EV’s - so that’s progress - 3 years ago no one would be talking about how fast an EV was on track...

we’re still early days here in this transition - Taycan is good, but not the king of the mountain in any way shape or form - and Tesla and Porsche are the best EV’s for purchase right now but that will also change…it’s exciting - we’re soon to see ongoing yearly improvements in everything and it will only get better from here on out.
Fair, fact-based, and well-reasoned posts like this are one of the reasons I enjoy this forum. Pretty unusual in my experience. The model 3 is an impressive vehicle for the price even if I have no desire to own one.
 

manitou202

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Sep 11, 2019
Messages
273
Reaction score
808
Location
Manitou Springs, CO
Vehicles
Porsche Taycan Turbo S, Audi E-tron
Country flag
Honestly the results make EV's look bad as a track car period. They all lost 10-15 seconds a lap, five laps in.

So basically the results tell me that a Model 3 with $20k in performance upgrades can come close to the same lap time as a Turbo S, but neither car really has the cooling power (or battery tech) to run these lap times for more than 5-10 minutes. All EV's have a lot of catching up to do in order to compete on the track.

In terms of the Model 3 running a similar lap time to the Taycan, this is the case with many lower cost performance cars. If you sunk $20k into a new Supra it would probably run the same lap times (or faster) than just about any stock 911 today.
 

Advertisement





 
ZYRUS


Advertisement
Top