NEMA 14-50 Supply cable heat data

[daveo4EV]

yeah we're all going to be in a hard place here…

the NEMA 14-50 supply is not "unsafe" - it is simply sub-optimal for the task of being "mobile" and therefore "handled" during use.

it is however "sub-optimal" - I have little confidence that Porsche will replace these cables since they technically do not fall out of specification or safety parameters - but I still feel strongly Porsche should upgrade the cables because the optics here are terrible on a $3000 charger for a $200,000 EV…they have cheeped out on a very visible problem area and IMHO look foolish vs. the rest of the industry - and in particular Tesla.

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[daveo4EV]

for those distressed about this I can recommend the following:

ClipperCreek is consider some of the most expensive and reliable EV chargers available for the North American market. They are simple, easy to use, metaphorically bullet proof and rated for indoor and outdoor use even in extreme outdoor conditions - they have. reputation as being expensive but are still 1/2 the cost of the Porsche Mobile Charger Connect - and I can speak from experience here - they do not cheap out on their wire gauges and everything runs cool to the touch.

they are a great choice for your home EV charging setup now that we have dispensed with the notion that in the case of EV charging you get more if you pay more by purchasing the Porsche offering. I believe the PMCC has been demonstrated to be nothing more than a big bulky overpriced complex beast of a charger that is not even particular good at its assigned task. But that's just my opinion.

ClipperCreek chargers will charge any North American EV (including a Taycan & Tesla) and provide many many years of worry free and fuss free service.

I highly recommend a "share2" enabled ClipperCreek charger so you can easily add a 2nd charger in the future to share the same breaker and split the load when you want to charge multiple-EV's at the same time.

this charger will plug into the SAME 14-50 socket you already have installed for your PMCC

https://store.clippercreek.com/residential/HCS-50P-Plug-in-40 Amp-EVSE-Charging-Station-25-ft-over-molded-cable-NEMA-14-50

here is the NEMA 6-50 vesion

https://store.clippercreek.com/residential/hcs-50p-nema-6-50

and for those that want to future proof their install for their future 2 EV household - this one is same price as the Porsche Charger

https://store.clippercreek.com/residential/40-amp-dual-charging-station-14-50

The HCS-D50 is a 40 Amp, Level 2 NEMA 14-50 station that can charge two vehicles simultaneously. Installed on one 50 Amp circuit, the HCS-D50 splits electricity between two vehicles. Up to 20 Amps of electricity is provided to each electric vehicle each when both are charging, with up to 40 Amps when one vehicle is charging. The HCS-D50 can be mounted on a wall or on one of several free-standing pedestal options. Up to two HCS-D50 charging stations can be mounted on a pedestal, allowing the charging of up to 4 vehicles per pedestal. A universal charging station, the HCS-D50 and will charge any electric vehicle using the standard SAE J1772 connector. The HCS-D50 power level of 40 Amps is perfect for electric cars such as the BMW i3, the Chevy Bolt, and Kia Niro.

there is a hardwired version and a NEMA 6-50 version of these chargers.

and if you want to maximize your charging speed with your Taycan - I can recommend this charger from ClipperCreek which is a 48 amp charger (60 amp breaker)

https://store.clippercreek.com/residential/hcs-60-48-amp-ev-charging-station

• Share2 Circuit Sharing

  : Connect two HCS-60 charging stations on the same 60 Amp circuit and they will share power when two cars are plugged in. READ MORE >

  https://store.clippercreek.com/new/chargeguard-access-control-evse

and to prove just how tough ClipperCreek chargers are -here is a guy going after one of their chargers with a. baseball bat - not sure many of us would do the same with the PMCC



ClipperCreek used to be consider the most expensive EVSE but they were also consider the best

Porsche is now the most expensive.

 

[porsche_coyote]

for those distressed about this I can recommend the following:

ClipperCreek is consider some of the most expensive and reliable EV chargers available for the North American market. They are simple, easy to use, metaphorically bullet proof and rated for indoor and outdoor use even in extreme outdoor conditions - they have. reputation as being expensive but are still 1/2 the cost of the Porsche Mobile Charger Connect - and I can speak from experience here - they do not cheap out on their wire gauges and everything runs cool to the touch.

they are a great choice for your home EV charging setup now that we have dispensed with the notion that in the case of EV charging you get more if you pay more by purchasing the Porsche offering. I believe the PMCC has been demonstrated to be nothing more than a big bulky overpriced complex beast of a charger that is not even particular good at its assigned task. But that's just my opinion.

ClipperCreek chargers will charge any North American EV (including a Taycan & Tesla) and provide many many years of worry free and fuss free service.

I highly recommend a "share2" enabled ClipperCreek charger so you can easily add a 2nd charger in the future to share the same breaker and split the load when you want to charge multiple-EV's at the same time.

this charger will plug into the SAME 14-50 socket you already have installed for your PMCC

https://store.clippercreek.com/residential/HCS-50P-Plug-in-40 Amp-EVSE-Charging-Station-25-ft-over-molded-cable-NEMA-14-50

here is the NEMA 6-50 vesion

https://store.clippercreek.com/residential/hcs-50p-nema-6-50

and for those that want to future proof their install for their future 2 EV household - this one is same price as the Porsche Charger

https://store.clippercreek.com/residential/40-amp-dual-charging-station-14-50



there is a hardwired version and a NEMA 6-50 version of these chargers.

and if you want to maximize your charging speed with your Taycan - I can recommend this charger from ClipperCreek which is a 48 amp charger (60 amp breaker)

https://store.clippercreek.com/residential/hcs-60-48-amp-ev-charging-station

• https://store.clippercreek.com/Shar...Bundle-48-Amp-Level-2-240V-with-25-foot-cablehttps://store.clippercreek.com/new/chargeguard-access-control-evse

and to prove just how tough ClipperCreek chargers are -here is a guy going after one of their chargers with a. baseball bat - not sure many of us would do the same with the PMCC



ClipperCreek used to be consider the most expensive EVSE but they were also consider the best

Porsche is now the most expensive.

I'll echo that the Clipper Creek stuff seems to be bulletproof. We've gone to a Share2 HCS-50 40 amp solution at my house. It replaces a ChargePoint Flex which seems like it has a cool feature set but created no end of issues with my wife's e-Golf. We are both very happy with the result. It's pricey and kind of ugly, but it's built to last.

 

[Toby Pennycuff]

Has anyone found a CCS DC charger for home use that is reasonably priced just yet??

 

[daveo4EV]

if anyone DOES find a CCS DC charger for home use - please let @daveo4EV & @Toby Pennycuff know!!!

 

[Toby Pennycuff]

The Bosch/Delta 25kW DC Charger is a cool $9K or more. Good thing is they make one that runs off of single phase power! The Bosch does not seem to enjoy a good reputation, but when you look at them, they look identical. I assume one is an OEM-version.

Oh and one other thing..... Apparently you need a 165 amp breaker to support the 25kW DC Fast Charger!

 

[daveo4EV]

$9000 / $3225 = that's only 2.79 Porsche PMCC's - really not that bad if you consider the Porsche chargers cheap

let's see 2.79 porsche charges are: 26.7 kW of charging power!!! @ 40 amps - or if you're using Porsche new disclosure of only use it for 30 amps 20.08 kW of charging power

for the same money the Bosche provides 25 kW of charging power - and it's supply cable will probably not overheat.

 

[wmras]

I'm going to predict the 4 gauge wire will make little if any difference - the problem is NOT the feed (my supply cable data shows it running 87F) ...

It will make a difference, albeit small - the 70 ft. run was the reason for the recommended #4-gauge. And Romex will be hotter than metallic conduit. Small things help when you are dealing with something near or over the edge.

 

[KenU]

It will make a difference, albeit small - the 70 ft. run was the reason for the recommended #4-gauge. And Romex will be hotter than metallic conduit. Small things help when you are dealing with something near or over the edge.

Will find out later tonight if this has any effect, at all. Hope the benefit is more than “small”.

 

[KenU]

I'm going to predict the 4 gauge wire will make little if any difference - the problem is NOT the feed (my supply cable data shows it running 87F) - the PMCC supply cable Porsche is providing is simply not up to the task - the solution is not different power supply cable from the breaker to the outlet - it's an appropriate wire gauge for 40 amp supply cable from the outlet to the PMCC.

I believe the following to be true:

1. 10 gauge wire is safe/rated/certfied for 40 amp usage - there is no electrical/safety issue here from a "wire will fail/melt" point of view
2. 10 gauge wire was a poor choice for a "mobile" solution where humans may touch the cable in normal use scenarios due to higher than comfortable to human touch temps under normal use.
3. 10 gauge wire can get uncomfortably hot after hours of use @ 9.6 kW
   1. this will be especially true if you use the "Mobile" charger in a "mobile" situation where the charger & supply cable may be subject to direct sunlight on a hot day
   2. can you say TrackDay w/PCA GGR or Diablo region @ Thunderhill @105F ambient air temperature in August/Sept - I knew you could!!
4. having 10 gauge wire in an enclosure with limited airflow (i.e. the Porsche Dock) will aggravate the thermal issues but still not be an electrical safety issue
5. the PMCC will have less thermal issues in an open air environment as there will be greater cooling available to the cable
   1. the cable in this case is "air cooled" like the original 911 - original Taycan owners will cry foul when at some point in the future Porsche moves to liquid cooled cables
   2. oh wait they already have move to liquid cooled cables - 350 kW @ 800 volts - the cables are liquid cooled -
6. Porsche should provide a replacement 14-50 & 6-50 supply cable with a lower gauge wire (6 or 8 gauge) - this will lower the temperature of the wire under normal use.
7. I won't hold my breath for #6 to happen - but would be unsurprised that in some future PMCC kit the 6-50/14-50 silently get a new part # and the only difference is the wire gauge…
8. when/if #7 happens Porsche will charge more for the new enhanced supply cable part than a full dual charger setup from ClipperCreek.

daveo, I hope you like cigars because I OWE YOU ONE!!! I wish it was a box but after what I spent trying resolve this issue that’s all I can afford. You are 100% correct. This new set up, the 4 gauge wire, the Hubbell receptacle had ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER!! After 75 minutes the supply cable and plug are piping hot, just as before with the 6 gauge and normal receptacle. Couldn’t hold the supply cable near the plug for more than a few seconds. Even the cable to the car is hotter than I can recall from before. Now, after wasting $650 I’m going to have to reduce the amps back down to 32 or even 24, as I did before while waiting for my electrician to revise my wiring.
It’s not rocket science. There’s no other explanation other than the supply cable cannot reasonably support a 40A charge no matter what you throw at it - plain and simple.

 

[daveo4EV]

@KenU I'm satisfied that I'm correct - but very very sad that the problem is not resolved - I would recommend abandoning the PMCC and now that you have 4 gauge wire purchase the ClipperCreek HCS80 (64 amp charge rate) dual charging configuration (for your future multiple EV charging needs). The HCS80 will happily charge your Taycan at it's full 48 amp charge rate and run nice and cool.

again the fact that the wire upgrade made no difference makes me sad. But you have the infrastructure now for a very HIGH amp charger and split load charging for dual EV's - so the investment is not a complete waste.

 

[daveo4EV]

KenU - what does the PMCC report as the amp rate, and what does the car report as kW during the charging session?

I'd love to know your AMPs & Volts and with those two pieces of information we can work out your likely voltage.

since you now have 4 gauge wire to the NEMA 14-50 box - you can simply upgrade the breaker to 60 or 80 amps at the panel - and hardwire in a 60 or 80 amp ClipperCreek charger using the existing conduit/wire you've run for the PMCC.

 

[KenU]

KenU - what does the PMCC report as the amp rate, and what does the car report as kW during the charging session?

I'd love to know your AMPs & Volts and with those two pieces of information we can work out your likely voltage.

since you now have 4 gauge wire to the NEMA 14-50 box - you can simply upgrade the breaker to 60 or 80 amps at the panel - and hardwire in a 60 or 80 amp ClipperCreek charger using the existing conduit/wire you've run for the PMCC.

This is what it shows now and at the beginning of the charging the amps were fluctuating between 39.8 and 39.7A. Is this what you’re looking for?

 

[Miwa]

18kWh? From a single phase?

Er, nevermind, I was reading that as 18kW, LOL!

 

[daveo4EV]

This is what it shows now and at the beginning of the charging the amps were fluctuating between 39.8 and 39.7A. Is this what you’re looking for?

partially

during the charging session - the center console battery-charge UI can show either miles/min or kW

what is the kW during the charge cycle?

since

watts = amps * volts

if I have watts and amps I can do algebra and get an estimate as to the Volts ;-)

I'm wondering if your voltage is particularly "high" causing additional load on Porsche's under-spec wire.

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