Taycan real world Range

285kph

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Keep them in business? They have the top selling car in America. 1 sedan sells more than all BMWs combined. .
from Goodcarbadcar:
2019 YTD: Tesla 99,550 vs BMW 179,454
Q2 2019: Tesla 53,300 vs BMW 82,551
I'm pretty sure that 99550 < 179454 and 53300 < 82551.

You probably got confused with BMW sedan sales, rather than "all BMWs". Btw, BMW's Q2 '19 figure is up 4% compared to Q2 '18, so they're not exactly on their way out of business yet.
 

285kph

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The best argument is we can power all of our national transportation with the electricity we use to crack a barrel of oil into gasoline, diesel, and distillates. And that’s without burning it! We use over 3% of the nation’s energy to refine petroleum.
I may need some help with the math here. Transportation accounts for 28% of US energy use (source: National Academies of Sciences). You say we use "over 3% of the nation’s energy to refine petroleum". How is 3% enough to cover the 28% used for transportation?
 

dennis

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Tesla the product, which is a historic achievement, isn’t Tesla the business. And Detroit being f—ked doesn’t have anything to do with Tesla’s business problems. Since Tesla can’t manufacture cars faster, they can’t exploit Detroit’s weakness any more than they already have. These are all separate things. Tesla the business is hemorrhaging cash with huge quarterly losses and issuing multi billion dollar bonds. Which need to be repaid, with no apparent means to do so. In the short term, all available dollars are being invested into the Model Y lines and gigfactory 3. It’s not clear those investments will pay off large enough and soon enough to cover all their debts. Especially if the Chinese market is a bust in the short term due to a Chinese recession or insane trade war. Tesla has taken on an enormous amount of risk as a company. The markets are happy to loan Tesla more money for now but that could change quickly and drastically if the US economy slows. And the world economy doesn’t look so great right now.

it’s not enough for the Model Y to be killer. Tesla needs it to be extremely profitable and very quickly. Their business plan is bold and aggressive and quite risky. Tesla could do everything right and still fall short. They don’t need to outrun Detroit, they already did that. they need to outrun their debt.
I believe you are confusing profitability with cash flow. Tesla doesn't need to be profitable to grow its business. It just needs enough Operating Cash Flow to fund the capital expenditures it needs to grow the business. Let me explain.

Part of the Profit and Loss calculation includes Depreciation and Stock Based Compensation. Both of these are non-cash expenditures, to the tune of about $750M in recent quarters at Tesla. That mean when Tesla breaks even from a P&L standpoint it still generates $750M in Operating Cash Flow. This can be used to fund capex and/or pay off debt. Tesla was cash flow positive in 3 of the last 4 quarters.

Tesla has decided to forego profits in the short term in order to drive growth. The easiest way to see this is in the continue price reductions. The Model 3 Performance with the now bundled Performance Options and AutoPilot was $72K exactly a year ago (I know because I own one). The same car is now $56K. The $145K Model S P100DL is now $100K. The $100K Model S 100D is now $80K.

Why are they doing this? To increase volume which drives down manufacturing costs and increases both market share and mindshare. And it is working, just like it worked for Amazon 5-6 years ago when they were sacrificing profits for growth. And their stock was $300/share.

So keep an eye on the Balance Sheet, where there is currently $5B in cash, and the Cash Flow Statement rather than the headline Net Income (Loss) number to see how Tesla is doing at this current stage where growth is more important than profitability.
 
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gwestr

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from Goodcarbadcar:
2019 YTD: Tesla 99,550 vs BMW 179,454
Q2 2019: Tesla 53,300 vs BMW 82,551
I'm pretty sure that 99550 < 179454 and 53300 < 82551.

You probably got confused with BMW sedan sales, rather than "all BMWs". Btw, BMW's Q2 '19 figure is up 4% compared to Q2 '18, so they're not exactly on their way out of business yet.
You’re confusing a lot of things. BMW reports monthly sales, so Tesla is always 2-3 months behind. The Model 3 has the highest sales in the United States, more than Toyota Camry. That is, total dollars sold. Camry sells more units but at a much lower price.

Tesla started sending some cars overseas in a push. It’s lumpy because they have only one factory, with 2 more opening on other continents.

BMW is approaching 6 months of inventory and is giving out $4000 discounts and huge lease incentives. When Tesla makes a car people on the east coast will buy, then it really begins.
 

gwestr

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I believe you are confusing profitability with cash flow. Tesla doesn't need to be profitable to grow its business. It just needs enough Operating Cash Flow to fund the capital expenditures it needs to grow the business. Let me explain.

Part of the Profit and Loss calculation includes Depreciation and Stock Based Compensation. Both of these are non-cash expenditures, to the tune of about $750M in recent quarters at Tesla. That mean when Tesla breaks even from a P&L standpoint it still generates $750M in Operating Cash Flow. This can be used to fund capex and/or pay off debt. Tesla was cash flow positive in 3 of the last 4 quarters.

Tesla has decided to forego profits in the short term in order to drive growth. The easiest way to see this is in the continue price reductions. The Model 3 Performance with the now bundled Performance Options and AutoPilot was $72K exactly a year ago (I know because I own one). The same car is now $56K. The $145K Model S P100DL is now $100K. The $100K Model S 100D is now $80K.

Why are they doing this? To increase volume which drives down manufacturing costs and increases both market share and mindshare. And it is working, just like it worked for Amazon 5-6 years ago when they were sacrificing profits for growth. And their stock was $300/share.

So keep an eye on the Balance Sheet, where there is currently $5B in cash, and the Cash Flow Statement rather than the headline Net Income (Loss) number to see how Tesla is doing at this current stage where growth is more important than profitability.
To add, Tesla is massively unit profitable. It’s investing in hundreds of other businesses, like any startup would. It’s a vertically integrated auto tech play — that has a lifetime financial relationship with the customer always online. It is not “bleeding cash”, it’s innovating and developing new revenue streams.
 

285kph

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You’re confusing a lot of things. BMW reports monthly sales, so Tesla is always 2-3 months behind. The Model 3 has the highest sales in the United States, more than Toyota Camry. That is, total dollars sold. Camry sells more units but at a much lower price.

Tesla started sending some cars overseas in a push. It’s lumpy because they have only one factory, with 2 more opening on other continents.

BMW is approaching 6 months of inventory and is giving out $4000 discounts and huge lease incentives. When Tesla makes a car people on the east coast will buy, then it really begins.
I'm not confusing anything. You said "1 sedan sells more than all BMWs combined. ", which is false, regardless of whether cars are sent overseas, or things are "lumpy" or Tesla is late with their numbers. It's ok to be a Tesla enthusiast, but cutting down on the hyperbole/falsehoods might be a good idea, in particular on a forum for a car you have no intention to buy.
 

gwestr

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I'm not confusing anything. You said "1 sedan sells more than all BMWs combined. ", which is false, regardless of whether cars are sent overseas, or things are "lumpy" or Tesla is late with their numbers. It's ok to be a Tesla enthusiast, but cutting down on the hyperbole/falsehoods might be a good idea, in particular on a forum for a car you have no intention to buy.
I’m going to buy a second EV. It has to be at least as good as Tesla or better. That really leaves only one choice, now does it? I was really in the market for a 992, Spyder/GT4, etc. But I just can’t pull the trigger on some dino burner with transmission lag, combustion lag, turbo lag, basically no torque. So I’ve wrapped my head around spending $130k. I’m just not going to blow it on a rube goldberg car. I want an EV.
 



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