What is your Taycan Range after X miles, Let's get some data

[ciaranob]

Now I need opinions from all you guys.
Apparently, I have a questionable battery.
The Porsche Battery Warranty is:
• Less than 80% of net battery capacity within the first 3 years/37,500 miles, whichever occurs first.

I already have only 85.85% after 21 months of use from exclusive DC 150kW charging. And suspect that I have the old battery wit the less than ideal chemistry. With 6% more of loss to go, I would reach that 80% threshold for warranty Battery replacement.

1. Should I continue to use the DC charging to se if I can push this below 80% within the next 15 months?
2. What do you think the likelihood is there that it would reach the threshold with this time frame?
3. I am afraid if start to use AC charging and not reach the 80%, I would be stuck with a poorly functioning battery.
4. Did you think the Porsche would actually replace the battery or just play with the reserve to bring it back up to acceptable usable capacity? If that happen, I am still stuck with a bad battery and now with even less reserve.

In regards how cell voltages relate to Soc anc indirectly yo health this is a response re this very subject in my Baseline SoH thread:
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/baseline-for-hv-battery-soh-performance.12815/post-251867

In regards your battery I still think you should try the test @Scandinavian suggested just to test how consistent your SoH value is.

Beyond that I’d def ask your dealership to give you a SoH assessment as they can do this possibly more accurately than the OBDII tools we use (although TBH I’m not sure if that’s actually the case!).

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[Genau]

I’d def ask your dealership to give you a SoH assessment as they can do this possibly more accurately than the OBDII tools we use (although TBH I’m not sure if that’s actually the case!).

The master mechanic at my local Porsche dealership did some research and could not find any way of measuring SoH using their service tools. He’s very conscientious and thorough, so I take his word.

 

[Darby]

Mine: 2021 Taycan RWD, after 120000 milds in moderate weather has 240 on Normal Drive and 153 on Range Drive. BTW, I have been using the EA 150KW charger exclusively.

I have the Taycan Cross Turismo 4S which gives 200 in the cold and up to 240 in the warmer weather.

 

[RTH]

The master mechanic at my local Porsche dealership did some research and could not find any way of measuring SoH using their service tools. He’s very conscientious and thorough, so I take his word.

Interesting. How does Porsche evaluate its Battery Warranty then?

 

[RMB]

266-280. Driving back to NW Washington from the LA delivery Center in CT4. All on hiways 1 or 101. 50 to 80 mph and many blasts to pass. Lotsa great scenery and curves.
Put AC on eco. 20" All season tires. Used recup on long steep descents.

 

[Mr. 2021 Taycan]

5,500 miles. 85% change consistently claims 250+ miles of range. This tracks well with what others are seeing.

 

[Sebbo]

GTS MY23 3400 294 range 287 normal on 21” spyders . Had a 4S before on mission Es with 5k plus miles and never saw 280 always mid 270s

 

[Archimedes]

2022 4S 10,500 miles, 185 miles at 85%, same as when new. Least efficient spec driven in the least efficient manner.

 

[bn8959]

I find it interesting that certain types of Tesla recommend always charging to 100%. Different battery chemistries apparently.

from Model 3 manual:

• For RWD vehicles: Tesla recommends you keep your charge limit to 100%, even for daily use, and you regularly charge your vehicle to 100%. If Model 3 has been parked for longer than a week, drive your vehicle as you normally would and charge to 100% at your earliest convenience.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

Now I need opinions from all you guys.
Apparently, I have a questionable battery.

Well, I wouldn't say that solely based on your readings with a third-party tool and speculation on forums.

The Porsche Battery Warranty is:
• Less than 80% of net battery capacity within the first 3 years/37,500 miles, whichever occurs first.

I already have only 85.85% after 21 months of use from exclusive DC 150kW charging. And suspect that I have the old battery wit the less than ideal chemistry. With 6% more of loss to go, I would reach that 80% threshold for warranty Battery replacement.

1. Should I continue to use the DC charging to se if I can push this below 80% within the next 15 months?
2. What do you think the likelihood is there that it would reach the threshold with this time frame?

Are you asking if you should attempt to trigger the warranty? I'd say that's a very risky proposition with an unclear outcome; what if you're just .5% short? What if P finds a finely-printed disclaimer which somehow you've missed (and denies coverage)? Replacing a battery is expensive, and they've done it in a few cases for defective units; I'd assume they'd resist with all their might the request to replace a battery based on SoH readings, specifically in the absence of a clear definition thereof.

3. I am afraid if start to use AC charging and not reach the 80%, I would be stuck with a poorly functioning battery.
4. Did you think the Porsche would actually replace the battery or just play with the reserve to bring it back up to acceptable usable capacity? If that happen, I am still stuck with a bad battery and now with even less reserve.

I don't recall if you actually noticed a significant loss in range, so philosophically speaking, you aren't harmed by the readings. It sounds like you intend to keep the car for a long time, and based on that alone I'd imagine you want to take as best of a care as you can - now that you have the ability to charge AC/L2 at home, do so, as that's about the only thing under your control.
Also, "poorly functioning battery" is not the same as "less available capacity"; from your earlier screenshot, the battery cells seemed actually quite healthy and even. It would still charge and discharge/provide current as needed, and you're still "within tolerance" wrt loss of capacity - which should slow/stop from here on out. It's easy for me to say that (not being in your position), but perhaps you may be worriying too much based on an imperfect measurement, and which is susceptible to misinterpretation.

I'd imagine you need to demonstrate clearly to P that you have lost 20%+ of range from new, and then back that up with SoH measurements.

(end of my 2c)

 

[Englishtony2002]

Bit of a redundant request !, but if you can get an OBDII tool reading of your SoH I'd again love to add you to the 47 Forum members that have provided same - really interested in longer term miles cars and TBH, whilst I don't expect any radical departures it would nonetheless be nice to have some longer term hard data points to anchor the trends. Beyond that, there are a lot of useful data you can read on your car's 'health' with this extremely cheap tool and the free CarScanner app.

Cheers, C.

Link to SoH (and my SoC) thread:

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/baseline-for-hv-battery-soh-performance.12815/

Tried car scanner app and recommended Bluetooth scanner and every time I try to connect I get a message something like "HV Battery Still Active", the connection fails

 

[ciaranob]

Tried car scanner app and recommended Bluetooth scanner and every time I try to connect I get a message something like "HV Battery Still Active", the connection fails

Thats a new one! Seems to imply you are still in Drive or perhaps charging at the time but I'd assume not, correct? Have you tried powering off and connecting and then powering back on etc. - sorry, again, first I've seen this error so no handy solution off the bat!

 

[ciaranob]

Well, I wouldn't say that solely based on your readings with a third-party tool and speculation on forums.



Are you asking if you should attempt to trigger the warranty? I'd say that's a very risky proposition with an unclear outcome; what if you're just .5% short? What if P finds a finely-printed disclaimer which somehow you've missed (and denies coverage)? Replacing a battery is expensive, and they've done it in a few cases for defective units; I'd assume they'd resist with all their might the request to replace a battery based on SoH readings, specifically in the absence of a clear definition thereof.


I don't recall if you actually noticed a significant loss in range, so philosophically speaking, you aren't harmed by the readings. It sounds like you intend to keep the car for a long time, and based on that alone I'd imagine you want to take as best of a care as you can - now that you have the ability to charge AC/L2 at home, do so, as that's about the only thing under your control.
Also, "poorly functioning battery" is not the same as "less available capacity"; from your earlier screenshot, the battery cells seemed actually quite healthy and even. It would still charge and discharge/provide current as needed, and you're still "within tolerance" wrt loss of capacity - which should slow/stop from here on out. It's easy for me to say that (not being in your position), but perhaps you may be worriying too much based on an imperfect measurement, and which is susceptible to misinterpretation.

I'd imagine you need to demonstrate clearly to P that you have lost 20%+ of range from new, and then back that up with SoH measurements.

(end of my 2c)

Whilst I agree with a most of this and in fact suspect his car is simply on the low end of the Hot-Warm climate SoH degradation curves I would add:

1) this 'third party tool' or OBDII (many of us have used on all our cars for decades) has been used here on 50 Taycans in this Forum with 76 readings and his car has the demonstrably lowest reading to date - so even if you don't trust these tools (I personally believe that they are likely fairly accurate in respect reporting what the PCM is reading) you can at least say that you have 76 readings which are consistently taken with the same tool and show his car to have the lowest observed value (whatever that might truly mean) - and yes lots of variables add a consistent margin of error of +/- 1% on all readings.

and

2) in respect Cell voltages - they're values of course related directly to SoC and indirectly to battery health and from what I've been told, variations in the 10 mv range may be significant. So for example here are 3 maps from RTH, 800V and my car and I'd argue there is more 'chatter' in RTH's cell values in that 10 mv range - I realize it is minor but at least observable. Again does this imply any causal link between his low SoH and cell integrity - I can't say definitively and I'm also certainly am not the one to ask !

Again my advice given was to have the dealership test his SoH and start charging with newly available AC - and further do additional measurements with the OBDII - as again, I suspect the larger issue here is that our Taycan's HV battery does not appear to stack up very well against Tesla data published to date (new separate thread) and basically, what we have is what we have!

Cheers, C.

 

[tchavei]

I'm 99% sure that those cell voltages will align with a slow charge from very low SOC to 100%. In the old days, lipo balancers would only start to burn off excess voltage when in 80+% range and would only actually balance the cells if the charging was very slow and close to full. most balacing would happen near full i.e. 95%.

Note that balancing (which sounds high tech per se) is nothing more than discharging individual cells while letting other cells "catch up". This "burning off" has to be performed at low charge rates or the balancing can't cope with the generated heat. There are physical limits.

I bet that when we see that downward curve even on low speed charging, it's when the balancing is starting (which is also the time we disconnect from the charger and move on lol)

 

[ciaranob]

I'm 99% sure that those cell voltages will align with a slow charge from very low SOC to 100%. In the old days, lipo balancers would only start to burn off excess voltage when in 80+% range and would only actually balance the cells if the charging was very slow and close to full. most balacing would happen near full i.e. 95%.

Note that balancing (which sounds high tech per se) is nothing more than discharging individual cells while letting other cells "catch up". This "burning off" has to be performed at low charge rates or the balancing can't cope with the generated heat. There are physical limits.

Ah - so implying that if RTH's prior charging by almost entirely DC vs the other 2 cars entirely by AC that this might explain the chatter in his snapshot of the current SoC?

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