Taycan real world Range

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by Nevadagame, Jun 19, 2019.

  1. Nevadagame

    Nevadagame Active Member

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    Why is the Taycan driving range being advertised using the obsolete NEDC testing cycle? (maybe for the same reason we’re looking at pictures of a mission E and we’re soon to look at the actual Electramera ) From my understanding a 310 mile NEDC result will be an actual 240 mile real world EPA result. ( a full 100 Miles less than the larger heavier model S ). It sounds to me like Porsche battery technology is a decade behind. Just look at the Audi e Tron at 204 miles from a 95 KWh battery. (same company, same technology) Why is everybody ignoring this discussion?
     
  2. beaudawg

    beaudawg Active Member

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    It's been brought up before, and is a genuine concern for some of us.

    Realistically, most people here won't buy the Taycan, nor were they ever planning to, so many real world discussions dead-end while the endless comparisons to Mission e prototype get the most attention.
     
  3. felixtb

    felixtb Well-Known Member

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    Think you might be a little unfair there……… I think quite a few people on this forum are really interested. Some have never owned an EV before and feel that an established brand will be what will push them into the EV space because they "know what they are doing"...…. And others here are interested in a change and to see if the quick but not fast TESLA S can be replaced with something more fun and more exclusive than the Model 3...….. and others might have put deposits just for the general interest...…. but I personally think they are a minority...…
    SO to the subject of range...…. There have been quite a few different figures official and unofficial but from official sources that stipulate NEDC and also real range at 500km, also that the limp home mode does not turn on until range is down to ZERO... which would mean a similar real range as the S... since the TESLA range is including the limp home mode...…… So I think everybody is in a wait and see mode more than showing no interest. And yes at the end the real range will be VERY important to the buyers here and elsewhere. For my self I started leasing cars with the second EV "purchase" because range and charging time is a concern and when there is a bigger and better battery on the market I can change to that configuration through my lease agreement...…. And in the end therefore we concentrate on the look because it is something we can discuss in somewhat real terms since we have all seen and interpreted the mission e and the prototypes/mules of the taycan……… for better or for worse.... :)
     
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  4. beaudawg

    beaudawg Active Member

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    All of the official Porsche statements and press releases have consistently, and specifically, stated that range will be over 500 km as measured in accordance with the NEDC (a test that was rendered obsolete September 2017). They haven't wavered on this position, nor have they updated it to a more realistic driving cycle, such as the WLTP or EPA regimes. The problem as I see it, is that the average consumer has no idea what any of those tests are, nor how they differ. This will ultimately result in poor consumer sentiment about the official (and real world) range being much less than the range advertised leading up to release. This will lead to negative perception (within the EV market) for the car and brand, just as has happened with both the Jaguar i-Pace and Audi e-Tron SUV.

    They'd be much better served to provide updated WLTP/EPA figures as early as possible, and deal with the backlash, due to the perception of reduced range, before the car is officially unveiled.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Nevadagame

    Nevadagame Active Member

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    I agree entirely, I am a deposit person from day one, and I’m pretty concerned about real world range, especially with a sparse charging network. What I still do not understand is how does Tesla achieve 370 miles,(soon to be closer to 400) with a larger vehicle using the EPA standard when the Taycan is likely to be rated at something very close to a Chevy Bolt at 238? It’s not even close! I live in Boulder Colorado and have several destinations which require 125-150 mile trips through the mountains, where there are no chargers planned, the Taycan as expected will not make the round trips. I want high style and exclusivity and I’m willing to pay a premium price for that, but I have a bad feeling this car is not capable enough for other than around town. If Rivian can build a pick up truck that does 0-60 in 3 seconds and gets 400 miles range, and Tesla can get 370+ range (and has more HP) in their full sized sedan, why can’t Porsche?
     
  6. DrParis

    DrParis Well-Known Member

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    Good point
     
  7. felixtb

    felixtb Well-Known Member

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    Sorry miss used certain words which were only ment to embellish the fact that Porsche has been, as you say, talking about more than 500km on the NEDC scale which does not mean 500km exactly on that scale it could be but could also be enough more to hold true on the newer WLTP scale as well we just don’t know what they are stipulating except for more than...... and also TESLA DOES include limping home mode in the total calculation and it was just mentioned in the last article by CAR magazine, that the Taycan will limp home after the range meter has gone to ZERO so there is a possible difference in assumption as well....... By the way, to me range is super important and that is exactly why I lease so I can get a new car when the range increases........
     
  8. EnjoyTheDrive

    EnjoyTheDrive Active Member

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    I have been on this forum for a while reading (and a deposit holder of a Taycan) and now have decided to respond based on this discussion as range has always been important to me just as much as style of the car and who is building it. I love all cars that have style, can handle, accelerate and brake like a sports car and has technology that separate itself from all other cars. When we first test drove the Tesla Model S85 back in early 2013, We were amazed. It drove like no other car I had driven before (I have owned Porsche’s, MB, BMW, Audi’s, etc) and this Tesla was just on a different paradigm. We were sold. And then to have the supercharger network, charging at home option, technology and 1 pedal driving were all pluses.

    When I read the comments on here about Tesla, I am giving those people the benefit of the doubt that they have never driven a Tesla, or, they just are biased, or misunderstand the superiority of BEV’s over ICE cars (Instant acceleration, less moving parts meaning less maintenance, getting off oil, etc.). Who in the US does not want Tesla, an American company, to succeed? But, with the short interest and FUD centered around Tesla, the answer is many including all other car Manufacturer’s so they do not need to make the investment in BEV’s. They will be pulled into this kicking and screaming or go bankrupt.

    On the Battery technology, Tesla is at least 7 years, if not 10 years ahead of every other car manufacturer. Most if not all current car manufacturers making BEV’s are doing so as compliance cars as they do not want to cannibalize their current portfolio. If you have been following what all of these car manufacturer’s Have been showcasing (concepts) in BEV’s since 2012, they all have had Tesla killers...I am still waiting. I remember Audi with their first E-Tron concept back in 2012/2013, it was going to compete head on with Tesla. Now, 2019, they bring out a car that has battery technology 7 years old. Sure, the interior is better, but you will be buying a car that just does not compete technologically and with limited and slower charging capabilities.

    Tesla has offered their technology as open sourced along with their supercharger network to any car manufacturer that was willing to share in their investment and no one has wanted to partner with them...why? They clearly have superior BEV technology. All US car manufacturer’s Have lobbied to stymie Tesla from selling in the States...you still cannot buy a Tesla In a few states because of the current laws on the books that car manufacturer’s Lobby to enforce. Do we not have free trade? Are we not in 2019?? Other car manufacturer’s Are scared.

    I put my hold on the Taycan hoping it would have better battery technology and look like the MissionE and accelerate, handle and brake like a Porsche. I have faith and hope they can do it. We will see.
     
  9. GratedWasabi

    GratedWasabi Active Member

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    Battery concern is my big issue right now and, frankly, something I now expect to be a glaring weakness of the Taycan.

    Look at the E tron. Sub 200 mile real world range using the same tech. Jaguar also struggled with their iPace.

    Porsche came out strong claiming their main focus was on efficiency and range in a true Porsche. I think they probably hit on the Porsche side of things and utterly missed on the EV side of things.

    I truly intend to buy a Taycan ASAP... IF it has a real world range over 250 miles. I drive a spirited 80-100 miles each direction 2 to 4 times a week into the mountains and need a car that can handle that without extreme range anxiety.

    With everything we know right now I'd be shocked of the 1st generation Taycan can deliver that.
     
  10. Haros

    Haros Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think that’s true at all, I think many of us had high hopes and a genuine interest. Everyone here posting has had a deposit for this car to my knowledge. That’s more than a toe in the water, that’s a plan to have had the car.
    The really unfortunate thing here is Porsche’s misrepresentation of this car both in visuals with the continuous use of the mission E for current advertising, as well as the technical with the grossly misquoted range.
    I also strongly feel the price will not be “between the cayenne and the panamera” unless they mean the base model which will most likely not be coming out first.
     
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  11. DrParis

    DrParis Well-Known Member

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    Agree. The E Tron battery/range issues presage the same for Taycan. Just spitballing here, but I wonder if , given VW Group’s stated EV goals going forward, would a Tesla/VW merger or acquisition make sense?
     
  12. Haros

    Haros Well-Known Member

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    VW Is already partnered with ford for EVs and I believe self driving.
     
  13. dennis

    dennis Active Member

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    What exactly is Ford bringing to the table in such a partnership? They are industry laggards in both EV's and autonomy.
     
  14. felixtb

    felixtb Well-Known Member

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    That's what they bring to the table! no preconceived ideas that VW would have to contend with... Just money and the right to be quite. :CWL:
     
  15. Singularity

    Singularity Active Member

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    #15 Singularity, Jun 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
    Hello guys! I've been reading this forum for a long time. I'm a deposit holder for the Taycan. To me the range is at this point clearly the #1 issue. I'm quite likely going to be happy with the looks, quality, performance and driving characteristics. But due to the range issue I'm currently quite unsure if I'm going to buy the Taycan.

    Currently the closest estimate we have for Taycan's range is the Audi E-tron, and here is a good article on the *real world* range of that car: https://www.greencarreports.com/new...ip-review-wait-range-ratings-arent-everything

    Based on that road trip test the E-tron has a real world range of 184 miles. This is with "normal driving", meaning multiple accelerations/overtakes and AC on etc, not the type of driving where you would intentionally try to maximize range. That kind of driving is not what I'm personally interested in. I already own a decently fast car (tuned Audi A7) and I drive it accordingly - faster than 95% of other drivers. I'm very worried about range issues at this point.

    184 miles is approximately 300km. I need to drive a 270km route fairly often, and currently here in Finland this route has 0 fast chargers. Meaning anything above 50kw. There are plenty of 22kw and 50kw ones but they are very slow. For this route I have read that there will be *1* 350kw charging station built this year with 4 charging points. That is it, for this year.

    So, to summarize, if the Taycan range is equal to the E-tron, it is highly unlikely that I'll buy it. It is simply not convenient for me. I would in that case wait for electric cars (and the fast charging infra) to evolve a bit before going there. But if the real world range is something like 400km, I am a likely buyer.

    So here are my thoughts, and at this point the thing I'm waiting for the most, is information on the real range. We need WLTP or EPA numbers, which are close enough to real world range to estimate the actual range with certain type of driving.
     

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