150kw option?

[daveo4EV]

I'm not good at math (odd for a software guy but true.)

I found my checkin on plugshare for this charge, it appears the car indicated 97kW while charging.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/232415

I am going to choose to believe I got to use the 400 volt 150kW option for once

from what I can see online about that charger - the 400V/150kW charging option was pretty clearly in play for that charging session.

Sponsored

 

[daveo4EV]

another factor is that 800V charging stations don't always "behave" - there are some 800V charging stations near me in prunedale, ca - when I charge there the station indicates it has "negotiated" a 480V charging session - I then proceed to charge at well over 100 kW - station has on screen data showing a 400V session - but I'm charging at over 50 kW…hmmmm

while most charging stations are 800V capable - they must be able to also charge 400V vehicles (like the Audi eTron SUV) - so 400V sessions are mostly what they do all day since the number of 800V EV's in the world is fairly small these days.

so either by design or by software bug accident just because you're plugging into an 800V station doesn't mean you will always get an 800V session - as to which side is screwing up the handshake negotiation for the charging session you'll never know because there are no logs from the station or vehicle to review…

 

[gnop1950]

To be clear, your charging network would be expanded regardless. Not optioning the 150kW upgrade doesn’t preclude anyone from using the (potentially) opened up Tesla charging stations. It just allows you to charge faster if the charging station supports it (generally, for non-Tesla cars, and at the time of use depending on capacity).

I’m not arguing against it for those who want it. But want to be clear about what’s actually (potentially) gained.

I should have specified that by high-speed I was referring to > 50kWh charging speeds if/when we are able to access the Tesla supercharger network.

Charging speed is, to me, one of the most important features (along with range of course) of an EV when going on long road trips. On the other hand I'm really hoping Porsche will have a meaningful number of Porsche charging centers in the US at some point. Being able to relax with a cup of coffee in a nice area would be worth a premium to me.

 

[daveo4EV]

Question for those knowledgeable in the UK.. for my forthcoming CT4, do I need the 150Kw option to benefit from any of the superfast charging stations in the UK, or will the Taycan charge at upto 270kW anyway. It would help a lot if I need to spec this option or not to get fast charging in the UK motorway network.

if you're using the Tesla supercharger network it's purely an 400V network…you'll need the option to charge at more than 50 kW - in europe it's pretty clear the Tesla Supercharging network is being opened to non-Tesla's and proceeding - with parts of the network regionally already available to non-Tesla vehicles - in North America it's more problematic because we need a connector solution since Tesla's use their Tesla only physical connector - either the stations need to be modified to have a CCS cable or an adapter needs to be released.

for non-Tesla fast charging networks the Taycan can charge at up to 270 kW with out the option assuming you're using a 800V charging station.

 

[DerekS]

from what I can see online about that charger - the 400V/150kW charging option was pretty clearly in play for that charging session.

Well that's great news

Also, I would point out the Porsche (default non-PIRM) charging planner suggested this charging route for my return trip.

The route out I used EA only and ABRP, coming home let the Porsche decide.
I got home in fewer hours and around 300 fewer miles.

 

[Ross]

The 800v ionity network in Uk is a lottery.
just been to Cornwall and used Cullompton ionity. There and back.
Got 43kw charging speed! The other 4 people charging, the same.
No one over 50kw.
Not the car then!
(Got 120 last year)
Fastest I have ever charged is at a 175kw charger at Shell A1 Markham Moor. Seemless!
The helpful lady serving told me if I downloaded the Shell recharge App I could have a free coffee.
It took a few minutes but the charging was so quick I took much more charge than I needed to get home!
So coffee cost about 20kw at 39p each! My DC charge upgrade worked a treat there.

 

[AnloTaycan2022]

While Electrify is all 800 Volts, most other L3 suppliers are at 480Volt such as Chargepoint. It is true there are few Chargepoint chargers offering more than 50KW, but it is out there. Also, if you plan to come in Canada, there is very few Electrify charger at this time and the whole infrastructure is primarily 480Volt for 50KW up to 150KW. So you would need the 150KW charger if you plan to come up North for sure.

 

[whitex]

if you're using the Tesla supercharger network it's purely an 400V network…you'll need the option to charge at more than 50 kW - in europe it's pretty clear the Tesla Supercharging network is being opened to non-Tesla's and proceeding - with parts of the network regionally already available to non-Tesla vehicles - in North America it's more problematic because we need a connector solution since Tesla's use their Tesla only physical connector - either the stations need to be modified to have a CCS cable or an adapter needs to be released.

for non-Tesla fast charging networks the Taycan can charge at up to 270 kW with out the option assuming you're using a 800V charging station.

In the US Tesla is looking to offer separate CCS stations in their superchargers, so those may or may not end up 400V. Last I looked they were trying to negotiate with Texas to pay for those CSS stations using one of their incentives, and trying to use that as a qualifier for federal EV charging expansion grants since adding CCS would mean their network is sharing with non-Tesla EV's. It was unclear what the ratio of Tesla to CCS chargers would be, but most likely the CCS only available in some new supercharger locations (presumably wherever they found state incentives to pay for them), rather than retrofit existing ones.

 

[Ambroos]

While Electrify is all 800 Volts, most other L3 suppliers are at 480Volt such as Chargepoint. It is true there are few Chargepoint chargers offering more than 50KW, but it is out there. Also, if you plan to come in Canada, there is very few Electrify charger at this time and the whole infrastructure is primarily 480Volt for 50KW up to 150KW. So you would need the 150KW charger if you plan to come up North for sure.

All ChargePoint chargers that can handle over 50kW also do 800V charging.

There really aren't many stations in the US and Canada where you'd benefit from the 150kW 400V option - until superchargers open up.

 

[HypeR]

If there are fast charging stations on the routes you use, you should prefer it.

 

[AnloTaycan2022]

In the Quebec province 95% of the chargers are from Circuit Électrique and the are all 400 Volt. They provide 50KW, 100KW and few 150KW.

 

[Jhenson29]

They provide 50KW, 100KW and few 150KW.

1 in 5 is 100kW, which isn't great, but not terrible either I guess. Only 1 in 100 is over 100kW though.

 

[bosbruce]

clarity is required here:

• any North American J-1772 based EV (including the Taycan) can use Tesla Destination Chargers w/TeslaTap or equivalent adapter
  • Tesla Destination chargers are 240V AC 20-80 amp L1/L2 chargers and are effectively J-1772 AC chargers with the “wrong” connector shape - the TeslaTap is a physical adapter that simplly “bridges” one type of AC power connector (Tesla) to the standard J-1772 L1/L2 AC connector.
    • Tesla Destination chargers “run” the “J-1772” electrical protocol but they do so with a non-standard 5-connector plug - electrically they _ARE_ J-1772, but physically they do not conform to the required plug shape.
      • the Tesla Universal Mobile Chargers (UMC) generation 1 and 2 are also techinically J-1772 EVSE’s with the same “wrong physical connector” - so TeslaTap also will let you use a Tesla Mobile Charger _OR_ Destination Charger
      • My opinion the sub-$300 Tesla Gen2 UMC is one of hte best Mobile 32 AMP L1/L2 EVSE’s on the market for quality, size, weight, feature set - and an excellent addition to any EV roadwarrior charging kit w/TeslaTap (or equivalent)
        • I use my Gen2 Tesla UMC w/TeslaTap this past weekend to charge my Taycan at Thunderhill Raceway while I tracked my ’18 911 GT3 at a 3 day event hosted by PCA Diablo and GGR regions - soooooo much fun was had
        • my Taycan _WAS_ the pace car for the PCA Club Races on sunday.
        • fun was had - Tesla Gen2 UMC EVSE was used to charge my Taycan between pace car duties using the track’s NEMA 14-50 power outlets all over the paddock.
  • this is a much simpler problem than adapting Tesla FastDC 400V charger connector to the completely different CCS connector with both electrical protocol tranformations and physical transformations require for SuperChager to CCS adaptation.
• NO production/released non-Tesla North American CCS EV can use _ANY_ Tesla Supercharger at this time - and the exact procedures, charge rate, and cost are all TBD and NO CREDIBLE schedule or technology or adapter has been announced at this time
  • Tesla Superchargers are 400V DC
  • there is MUCH complexity that is yet to be determined/locked-down as to how this will exactly be accomplished
    • there are likely scenarios and outcomes that are foreseeable - but there are no “facts” as to exactly how it will be accomplished
    • it is 100% possible and technically feasible for any CCS vehicle to use Tesla’s Supercharger network
      • this has already be inadvertently proven in europe where the Supercharger network uses the same connector
        • some superchagers were left “open” and non-Tesla’s did in fact successfully charge until Tesla “fixed” the superchargers and locked them down again
      • there are many potential methods to make CCS vehicles work with the SuperChargers - so there is no question this _CAN_ be done
        • Tesla and others have simply not yet announced which of the various foreseeable compatibility paths they will actually take
        • we know it can be done
        • we know at least 2 or 3 likely scenarios
        • we simply lack access to the internal plans (if there are any) that will document which of the various methods will be chosen for North American compatibility
          • and time frame will then be the next big reveal
  • Tesla has 3 speeds of Supercharger in North America
    • 72 kW - Urban
    • 120-150 kW - V2
    • 200 kW - V3
  • as to what if any version of Tesla Superchargers any CCS EV (including the Taycan) is able to use at what speed and at what cost is really a crap shoot at this time.
  • Making _ANY_ plans or assumption as to how/when CCS vehicles will interact with the Tesla Supercharger network is highly dubious enterprise at this time.

You should get the 400V/150 kW charging option because it’s cheap, it won’t harm the vehicle and it may triple your charging speeds at some chargers you may encounter during your ownership tenure - but there is no evidence or guarantee you WILL benefit from it - but you’ll miss it if you need it and the $460 ”saving” may seem silly if you end up spending 3x the amount of time charging at some remote location…my $0.02

I believe the above statements are the undeniable facts of the situation as of the date/time of this posting - and anyone telling you anything different may in fact be making things up. Evidence and citations/references would be required for me to change my opinions in this matter.

Extremely comprehensive analysis of the subject! I will definitely not debate the factual portion of your post.

You had me right up to "You should get the 400V/150kW charging option..." That is not an undeniable fact, it is your (well informed) opinion, and I get the impression from your garage you are less concerned about cost than even the average Taycan buyer. I looked at all of your (and other's) very helpful data in the past and didn't equip my 4S (should be in production this month) with it... I chose premium, heated seats, turbo wheels, propulsion sound, massaging seats, and upgraded paint as my options. Getting the bigger battery (adds a lot of weight to an already way too heavy car, puts more strain on suspension/brakes, more wear and tear on tires,...) which does boost horsepower but just enough to compensate for the extra weight, getting this someday-possibly-useful charging option didn't make the cut for me.

Also to note, if Tesla opens up existing chargers or future chargers (and if future are still 400v), there is no way of knowing if they will allow > 50kW rate to non TSLA vehicles anyway, plus existing TSLA chargers share power in neighboring stalls so your chance of getting > 50kW rate isn't great even if they did. And I've spoken to Taycan 4S owners charging at 350kW EA chargers with SoC in ideal ~20%-50% range showing peak charge rates below 100kW so there's no way this option would ever give you consistently reliable 3x (150kW) peak charge rates anyway. Peak rates are great advertising but average rate throughout a charge is far more relevant and most likely the difference here (even assuming TSLA does the optimal thing for Taycan owners with this option) is more like 1.8x faster charging. So for me it was a no brainer to skip this option, as I 99% charge for free at work or home, can find EA chargers when I need it for the occasional long trip, and am not likely to keep my Taycan 4S much more than a year anyway.

 

[bosbruce]

1 in 5 is 100kW, which isn't great, but not terrible either I guess. Only 1 in 100 is over 100kW though.

So if traveling to CA often and Circuit Electrique doesn't upgrade to 800v, looks like ~20% of the time you could charge at peak twice as fast with this option... If I lived there I'd most likely get the option.

 

[Jhenson29]

If I lived there I'd most likely get the option.

That’s fine. I have a hard time fathoming it. All public charging is entirely too slow IMO and I have no intention of participating anytime soon, so it makes little difference to me.

It’s kind of like asking me “Do you want a job that pays $1/hr or $2/hr?”

Um…neither, thanks.

Sponsored