at what point do we stop apologizing for Porsche

[daveo4EV]

This thread is like a family reunion - lots of folks from the early days of the Taycan release in March, April, and May 2020. Some of us had the same early build Taycan issues like the 12v battery, so I am glad to see so many people have stuck around and are contributing to this discussion.

I don't think there is a right or wrong here.

I think Porsche has made a lot of progress on the Taycan. From the 2020 4s I bought in April, 2020 to the '22 Cross Turismo 4s I ordered and had delivered in June, 2022 I see and experience the improvement. I have a boat load of respect for @daveo4EV and for the info he has shared on this board over the years. I agree with him that we have a right to expect more out of Porsche in regards to OTA's, but I think we also need to acknowledge the work that Porsche has done to update and improve the vehicle since its release in Denver, 2019. It has taken some time, and the upgrade process is not as easy as some would like, but there is effort being made by Porsche.

I can't remember his name, but there was an OG on this board who drove his super early release Taycan from Maine to Florida to California and back to Maine. He was instrumental in helping identify the 12v issue in early release Taycan's and was not shy in listing out items on the early Taycan's that needed fixing, or improvement. It would be interesting to compare what his old lists itemized out with what Porsche has done to fix some of these items.

There is a way to be both happy with your Taycan and still expect more from Porsche. I absolutely love my car, but would still like to have more robust OTA capability.

@louv made the amazing trip you mention…he was the earliest adopter I've known about - I came to Taycan in July of 2020 and worked closely with my service advisor and porsche technical people on the 12V issue…which thankfully has been addressed.

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[thecoloradokid]

@louv made the amazing trip you mention…he was the earliest adopter I've known about - I came to Taycan in July of 2020 and worked closely with my service advisor and porsche technical people on the 12V issue…which thankfully has been addressed.

That's right!! Thanks for refreshing my memory. I got my first Taycan in the end of April, 2020, and had the dreaded 12v issue in the beginning of June. I shared a lot of what he posted about his 12v experience with my local service team, so they were able to diagnose quickly and get replacement parts ordered.

That guy identified a lot of the early Taycan issues, so it is a shame he is no longer around to take some of the credit in subsequent fixes that have been issued. I am sure Porsche used his list since he was one of the first in the US to get his car, and then put it through the rigors of a massive winter road trip.

 

[thecoloradokid]

This seems, at least to me, the crux of the issue. I don't doubt that many of the early adopters, as early adopters often do, have had many of the issues under discussion. I haven't had any major issues with my MY22 Taycan 4S. So, from my perspective, either Porsche has been making very significant progress or I'm just very very lucky. Since I don't appear to the the only one in this situation I'm going with Porsche having made significant progress over the past three years.

Some of the issues, like taking weeks to do an OTA update, seem to have more to do with specific dealers than with Porsche. As I believe I posted earlier my ANA6 and Charger updates took about 4 hours. I dropped the car off late morning one day and picked it up, completed, early the next morning. My dealer schedules cars to come in when they know they can work on them, at least that has been my experience so far. When I dropped it off they had it pulled into a bay and were working on it before I even left the dealership in my loaner (a Panamera that made me really appreciate my Taycan )

Now if the above makes me an apologist for Prosche then I'll proudly wear that label. I do know that my Taycan makes me very happy every time I get in it and go for a drive.

I am not a fan of dividing people into camps on this subject. You can love your Taycan, but still expect a better update process from Porsche.

There have been a number of posts recently about the update installing process - some good and some just horrible. I had the WNK1 update done to my car last week and it was done in 6 hours - dropped off and picked up on the same day. I am lucky to have a very competent service team at my local Porsche dealership. That being said, if Porsche had enabled these over the air updates, everyone would have a consistent update process, and there would be no horror stories of people being told it would take 2 weeks to update the software in their car.

Hopefully this will be an enhancement we will see before the next version rolls out. It would make a near perfect car that much closer to be being perfect.

The charging unit is a differnt story!

 

[B61]

Many of your comments are spot on. However, i have discussed these issues with my service advisor and he told me porsche‘s focus is on how their cars drive and not software. Porsche‘s parent co recently fired their president and according to the news he was fired because of all the software problems with their cars The recent pcm update seems to have improved software. However it took 3 days at dealership for a simple update

New CEO of VW is not going to fix software development.
as you can see, they are already postponed several new models (including Macan EV) since their software company is not able to deliver new SW platform. But they do have ISO9001, as a software company .

 

[gnop1950]

I am not a fan of dividing people into camps on this subject. You can love your Taycan, but still expect a better update process from Porsche.

There have been a number of posts recently about the update installing process - some good and some just horrible. I had the WNK1 update done to my car last week and it was done in 6 hours - dropped off and picked up on the same day. I am lucky to have a very competent service team at my local Porsche dealership. That being said, if Porsche had enabled these over the air updates, everyone would have a consistent update process, and there would be no horror stories of people being told it would take 2 weeks to update the software in their car.

Hopefully this will be an enhancement we will see before the next version rolls out. It would make a near perfect car that much closer to be being perfect.

The charging unit is a different story!

I can't comment on the charging issues with the PMCC, I don't use it and have the PWCC which has worked pretty much flawlessly for me.

I do think they will continue to improve on the OTA updates. I've received quite a few since getting my car and the ANA6 is the first where I had to take my vehicle in for service. Personally, if they are not confident that a particular OTA update will go flawlessly I'm happy to take the car in occasionally to have one installed.

So far as dividing people into camps, well, they seem to do that themselves and while I enjoy many of daveo4EV's posts this one in particular seems perfectly designed to do just that, divide people into camps.

I've never owned any product that couldn't be improved, including cars. Difference of opinions are common and wanting Porsche to progress even faster doesn't make you a hater just as being satisfied with the rate of progress doesn't make you an apologist for Porsche. Unfortunately this is the internet and tolerance for divergent opinions is rare on Internet forums.

 

[Dslev]

this is from another thread - but I didn't want to derail that thread - I want to derail this thread

I understand this line of thinking but also I remember the vitrol with which people attack other car makers for not solving the whole problem?

the statement above is understandable and reasonable but at what point do we start admitting Porsche is behind in this game…

one of things that drew me to porsche was it's attention to detail and design into corners of automotive design that other "ignore" as "unnecessary"

but while I love my Taycan and consider it the best EV sports sedan on the market - albet at a price - so far after two years of ownership it only excels in Porsche's historical areas of excellence - and falls laughably short virtually all other dimensions that these days are required for automotive dominance

• software
  • in car behind the curve
  • app behind the curve
  • cloud based behind the curve
• OTA updates that take weeks to apply at a dealership and are far and few between - OTA here is also tongue and cheek - Porsche's notion of Over-the-Air (OTA) seems to be an eMail telling you to schedule your weeks long dealer visit to get the software.
• EVSE that's overheat and are now officially down rated due to design problems
• dealerships that are clueless regarding EV issues and deeply mislead customers
• factually my Taycan has personally spent more days in service in two year than all 6 of my Tesla's combined - Porsche quality vs. Tesla quality don't make me laugh
• fast charging network that is unreliable and a joke in North America
• numerous recalls
• complex charging software that takes a CS/EE degree to understand

now all of these issues have been discussed - and no one issue by itself is horrible - but we would all be laughing and pointing at this list of issues if it was happening to another car makers - but apparently because it's happening ot Porsche it's just fine and none of these issues are that bad

at what point do we stop apologizing for Porsche? These are serious issues, and if they don't get it together their build quality and mechanical engineering prowess will prove desperately insufficient over time and they will go down in stature - Porsche needs to start building competencies in some new areas otherwise this old school watch-maker stitch they have going on isn't going to carry the day.

they need to get serious about being the best at something other than stitching, steering feel, and brakes…cause I'm still taking my vehicle to the dealership and dropping it off for 2 weeks to received a software update that has color icons…my son's Tesla recieved two complete updates in the time my Taycan was at the dealership.

I expect better…and I'm having this thread so we can discuss if I'm alone in this.

friendly discussions only please ;-) but I believe these are issues worth wasting time on an internet forum about.

The problems are real and your post is spot on. Been a continual Porsche owner since I turned 16 and never experienced the range and severity of issues as I did with my Taycan Turbo (2021). Sadly I had to avail myself of the CA Lemon Law and sue Porsche, I turned the car in and received all my money back a month or so ago. All is not lost, I have a new porsche (gasoline) on order, delivery Oct. will circle back to all electric Porsches when they’re more problem/glitch free.

 

[Jhenson29]

You could still build an ICE vehicle with little to no software. This would just not be possible for an EV. This is just true.

@TDinDC which software do you suppose they used in the electric cars in the 1800s?

 

[Mr. 2021 Taycan]

Things are not that bad. Taycan owners here were almost unanimous early on (2020-21) that Porsche nailed the hardware and had much work to do on the software.

Here we are in the summer of 2022 and the latest software update has successfully addressed almost all the issues documented earlier. Here is what remains to be fixed based on my 2021 4S experience:

1. Over the air updates were supposed to be addressed by the recent major software update. Have to wait and see if ALL updates can now be done over the air in the future. Enough of going to the dealer to have these done.
2. Lane Keep Assist remains awful. My car over reacts when sensing a marked lane edge. Further, the sensor(s) are inconsistent in detecting lane markings. On the same road, 100 feet apart, LKA will detect lane markings (per the assistance systems display) and then fail to detect. LKA is totally unreliable and, as such, unusable. FYI - We have a Mercedes where LKA works perfectly on the same roads.
3. The surround camera in my car does not display the cameras in the left side of the display as documented in many YouTube videos of this feature in 2020 to 2022 models. There is a weird process of pressing and dragging my finger on the lower display to get surround view to display.

I hope Porsche is reading this and fixes these issues.

With all the software drama, the car is still a joy to drive.

 

[Jhenson29]

The surround camera in my car does not display the cameras in the left side of the display as documented in many YouTube videos of this feature in 2020 to 2022 models. There is a weird process of pressing and dragging my finger on the lower display to get surround view to display.

Are you talking about the 3D view hack?

 

[Mr. 2021 Taycan]

What is the "3D view hack?"

 

[Jhenson29]

What is the "3D view hack?"

People who ordered surround view don’t have (normal) access to the 3D view, which is a separate option, but can still get to it with a process similar to what you are describing. You have to use the trackpad to click on “hidden” cameras.

Edit:
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...-and-reviews-thread.11991/page-14#post-177642

 

[B61]

People who ordered surround view don’t have (normal) access to the 3D view, which is a separate option, but can still get to it with a process similar to what you are describing. You have to use the trackpad to click on “hidden” cameras.

Edit:
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...-and-reviews-thread.11991/page-14#post-177642

Afaik, after uPdate that hack doesn;t work anymore.

 

[Jhenson29]

Afaik, after uPdate that hack doesn;t work anymore.

Ok thanks. I haven’t really been following any of the update threads.
No big loss. As I mentioned in the linked post, it seems like a gimmick. The most useful think it did was show me that I don’t need it.
And I’m not sure if that’s what the other poster is referring to or not.

 

[B61]

Ok thanks. I haven’t really been following any of the update threads.
No big loss. As I mentioned in the linked post, it seems like a gimmick. The most useful think it did was show me that I don’t need it.
And I’m not sure if that’s what the other poster is referring to or not.

agreed.
i tried it less than 5 time….in a year.

 

[charliemathilde]

I wonder how much of this is early adopter teething pains. I’ve had my 2022 for 6 months, and it’s been fantastic. No service required yet. The 911 would have been in the shop at least once by now. Usually tire issues. And of course the 911 maintenance schedule is 2x the frequency

Every Tesla owner who rides in it immediately wants a taycan or for me to pass their name along to the dealer for macan EV wait list. no really. People love this car like they love supercar ride alongs. it‘s kinda silly. It had massage seats. Minds are blown that S class comfort is paired with this kind of performance, cabin quiet and air suspension.

Mine has had no problems with plug n charge or EA. I live near one of their marquee and largest stations so that’s not really fair. But for folks charging at home, I expect they have it even easier for daily driving.

it’s by far the best driving BEV I’ve ever driven and on the market. It’s also flat out the best 4 door sedan i’ve ever driven. Mercedes should be ashamed of themselves for letting Porsche build this first.

as for being a Porsche apologist, I’m taking my ice sportscar business elsewhere. The allocation games for the GT cars just aren’t worth it. The artura is a better TTS than the TTS. Ironically, I still plan to buy more BEV from Porsche. Wife is committed to a BEV Macan, and I’ll definitely pick up a gen2 taycan in 2027 if the rumors are true.

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