Electrify America 101 and Range Lessons learned on first road trip

[tomdfw1]

No need to fret. EE’s must make assumptions with respect to circuits so they can analyze them. A Physicist will say they do that because they couldn’t pass the physics courses. A Mathematician will say the Physicist couldn’t pass the math courses. And a lawyer will say I don’t give a f**k, it’s only what I can convince the dumb clucks on the jury of.

Soooo can I safely configure my charger to 10A on the 120v connection? What’s the worst that can happen?? It trips my fuse box?

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[Knight Rider]

He probably has the bigger battery? I regrettably was talked into sticking with the 79kwh battery. Do you know what his average speed was? The headwinds also probably didn't help me. I will be heading back to Plano tomorrow and determined to make it on one stop.

Yes the car has the larger 93kwh battery and he averaged 77mph using innodrive and adaptive regen setting.

 

[JimBob]

Soooo can I safely configure my charger to 10A on the 120v connection? What’s the worst that can happen?? It trips my fuse box?

As long as you don't exceed the amperage of the circuit breaker you won't trip it. However there is a guy claiming that Porsche used a lower quality ac to dc converter which can set your car on fire at low currents. We are waiting to see how that turns out.

X'd that out as it was a bit gratuitous.

 

[Jhenson29]

As long as you don't exceed the amperage of the circuit breaker you won't trip it.

That’s not necessarily true. Some breakers will trip near (but below) their rated current given enough time (which is certainly possibly during charging). You’d have to check the trip curve of the specific breaker.

OP should not exceed 80% of the amperage of the circuit breaker.

 

[JimBob]

That’s not necessarily true. Some breakers will trip near (but below) their rated current given enough time (which is certainly possibly during charging). You’d have to check the trip curve of the specific breaker.

OP should not exceed 80% of the amperage of the circuit breaker.

He's refers to a 10 amp circuit which appears to be continuous power. It's not likely to trip a 15 amp breaker, well under the 80% rule, and certainly not a 20 amp breaker. Provided of course the wire is sized correctly. Unless maybe the temperature is like 120F or the panel is full of circuits operating near capacity.

 

[Jhenson29]

He's refers to a 10 amp circuit which appears to be continuous power. It's not likely to trip a 15 amp breaker, well under the 80% rule, and certainly not a 20 amp breaker. Provided of course the wire is sized correctly. Unless maybe the temperature is like 120F or the panel is full of circuits operating near capacity.

…okay. But that still doesn’t make your original statement true…so…?

Separately, I’m pretty sure there are still some 10A residential breakers out in the wild.

 

[JimBob]

…okay. But that still doesn’t make your original statement true…so…?

Separately, I’m pretty sure there are still some 10A residential breakers out in the wild.

I am always happy to learn.

So my statement was false because? I will yield that all the parameters were not defined by either the OP or myself. So I chose a "reasonable" representation of reality. If I got it wrong, let me know. A 15 amp breaker will not trip on a continuous 10 amp current draw unless some other things are going on.

And if you have a 10 amp circuit breaker you are protecting an 18-20 gauge wire or should be. Not likely to be used on an EVSE of any type unless you are a DYI'er and went down to Home Depot and bot a bunch of stuff and got it wrong.

We really have to stop meeting like this.

 

[tomdfw1]

Huh?
Power = the rate at which we charge (or discharge). It is measured in Watts (or more commonly for EVs in kilowatts (kW)
Power is calculated as current * voltage.

Energy is a measure of how much you’ve stored in your EVs battery. It is measured in kilowatt hours (kWh). It is a measure of how much work (change) you can make happen later.

So, you can’t charge at 18kWh. That’s a measure of Energy, not power. You can say: I charged at 180kW (power) for 6 minutes and gained 18kWh (energy) (180kW * 0.1 hour).

Similarly, if the 18kWh was a typo and you meant 18kW, we can calculate that you need a current of 75 Amps at 240 Volt to get 18kW of power. (75 A * 240 V = 18,000 W).

Most of us have 40A or 48A available for L2 charging at home. So we would typically get 9.6kW or 11.5kW of power.

Thanks for explanation very much.

I made my first road trip from Plano to Conroe, Texas.; 224 miles away. I have a base Taycan 79kwh battery, which claims 210 miles but was told Porsche under promises and over delivers so I wanted to see if I can make it to Conroe with no stops! My white Taycan is optioned very well mission-E-esque. and I love this car...BUT!

A) There are 3 levels of charging: Level 1 is 120V home three prong standard which charges at 1Kwh. Level 2 is the 240V "dryer plug" outlet which charges at ~18kwh. Level 3 is at rapid charge stations like Electrify America and Porsche dealerships.
B) The car will charge with any charge station/network. All stations are standard except Tesla; which can still be used with an adapter at the end of their plug.
B) Electrify America network includes 3 years free charge at their stations. I was also told Porsche dealers as well; but they are now requiring manager approval each time.

I made a road trip planning to stop off at Electrify America, if necessary, to get from point A to B. I charged my car to 85% initially at home and went on my way.

There were 3 Electrify America stopovers (NONE in DFW metroplex but enough on major highways in all directions out) at Walmarts on the way...one about 70 miles (#1 Ennis) out, another at 150 (#2 Madisonville) and another about 175 miles out (Huntsville).

I saw I had about 180 miles range with battery at 85% so I needed Taycan for a major over delivery of range to get there on no charge. After driving 40 miles I saw I was tracking at the stated range or LESS; but I have a heavy foot and learned if you go over 70MPH it will detract from the stated range.

Ok, so with this knowledge I know I won't make it...so I need to stop at one of the three. If I can make it to Madisonville, I can get a good charge and then be able to get to Conroe and back to Madisonville again to get home to Plano. But after cruising at 80-110 MPH (hypothetically) my range is questionable to make it to Madisonville, much less Hunstville or Conroe, so I opted to stop at the Ennis location since it might be close making it to Madisonville. I charged to 85% again and went on my way. It dawned on me I would need to stop again if I were to make it to Conroe and then back out again to get home. So I stopped in Huntsville (#3).

So it took me 2 stops to make it 225 miles...but I was driving well over speed limit with 4 people and stereo jamming.

I will share my experience at EA station in follow up reply.

I reconfigured my charger to 10A.

So I looked in my fuse box and saw all 15 and above fuses. I have no idea which outlet goes to which fuse in the box but since they were all 15 or above I went ahead and figured it would be safe to reconfigure my charger from the 8A , which I previously read was what I should set to on 120V instead of 6A which is the default and not good for car.

After 3 hours, all is well and I now see I am charging at 1.1 kw (Not KwH...Thanks tandsrup). I was charging at .9kw when charger was set at 8A. This makes sense that bumping from 8A to 10A will bump amount of energy transferred and thus faster. It is starting to make sense!

Thanks for those that are patient and educating some of us bean counters.

 

[Jhenson29]

So my statement was false because?

Jim, I’ll be be honest. I don’t understand your confusion here. I spelled it out fairly plainly in my initial comment. Not to be mean. It was just that what you said was plainly wrong. Please also correct me should I do the same.

But I’ll try again.

You said:

As long as you don't exceed the amperage of the circuit breaker you won't trip it.

That is not a true statement. You can run a current below the the rating of a circuit breaker and still trip the breaker. Breakers can have trip curves that dip below rated amps given enough time. So, the statement is false. It is not true that if you keep the current below the rated current, you will not trip a breaker.

FWIW, OP asked me the same question yesterday. Here was my response:

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/mobile-charger-settings-on-120v.8329/#post-119308

Regardless, if the device let’s you take it up to 10A, then whether you should depends on what breaker it’s on and what else is on that circuit. If it’s a 10A breaker, then no, 8A is max. If it’s a 15A or 20A breaker, then 10A is fine depending on other loads (if any) on the circuit.

You just need to follow the 125% circuit rating rule.

And ….

Not likely to be used on an EVSE of any type unless you are a DYI'er and went down to Home Depot and bot a bunch of stuff and got it wrong.

Someone could have purchased a house or have a rental with an existing 10A breaker on a receptacle. It doesn’t have to be someone installing a 10A breaker for a receptacle intended for an EVSE. It has to do with removing ignorance and being aware of the circuit in use and what’s acceptable.

 

[Jhenson29]

After 3 hours, all is well and I now see I am charging at 1.1 kw (Thanks tandsrup) which WAS charging at .9kw when charger was set at 8A.

Is this your long term plan? This will be very very slow. Will you be installing a 240VAC receptacle for charging?

 

[andrewket]

I made my first road trip from Plano to Conroe, Texas.; 224 miles away. I have a base Taycan 79kwh battery, which claims 210 miles but was told Porsche under promises and over delivers so I wanted to see if I can make it to Conroe with no stops!

A) There are 3 levels of charging: Level 1 is 120V home three prong standard which charges at 1Kwh. Level 2 is the 240V "dryer plug" outlet which charges at ~18kwh. Level 3 is at rapid charge stations like Electrify America and Porsche dealerships.
B) The car will charge with any charge station/network. All stations are standard except Tesla; which can still be used with an adapter at the end of their plug.
B) Electrify America network includes 3 years free charge at their stations. I was also told Porsche dealers as well; but they are now requiring manager approval each time.

1. Power is in kW; energy is in kWh. You charge at x kW, and you gain y kWh of energy.

2. Many things will affect efficiency and therefore range, with speed being the most impactful. Energy use goes up exponentially with speed. Rated range is calculated using 65 mph. Driving 75-80 is a significant difference. 100 is… you get the idea.

3. As a new EV owner you’re likely over charging. Pulling into the charger at 5-10% is ideal, and you want to charge just enough to get to the next charger with a small safety margin. As EA’s footprint expands that margin will get smaller.

 

[tomdfw1]

Is this your long term plan? This will be very very slow. Will you be installing a 240VAC receptacle for charging?

No....My initial message stated I drove down to family house in Conroe. I have a 50A circuit at my home in Plano, which I head back to tomorrow.

 

[Tandrup]

After 3 hours, all is well and I now see I am charging at 1.1 kw (Not KwH...Thanks tandsrup). I was charging at .9kw when charger was set at 8A. This makes sense that bumping from 8A to 10A will bump amount of energy transferred and thus faster. It is starting to make sense!

Thanks for those that are patient and educating some of us bean counters.

Exactly!!! I love it!
Like someone else posted: Hopefully you’ll have other charging options since charging at 1kW is going to take a while
With what we’ve learned so far - and not accounting for charging losses, it will take you 79 hours at 1kW (power) to gain 79kWh of energy and take your battery from 0% to 100%. Easy, eh?
Good luck with the return trip. I honestly can’t wait to hear your update

 

[Jhenson29]

No....My initial message stated I drove down to family house in Conroe. I have a 50A circuit at my home in Plano, which I head back to tomorrow.

Ok. Didn’t realize this was temporary for remote charging.

 

[Jhenson29]

it will take you 79 hours at 1kW (power) to gain 79kWh of energy and take your battery from 0% to 100%.

Only 71kWh is usable on the standard battery. So, slightly better. Still terrible.

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