Electrify America 101 and Range Lessons learned on first road trip

[Tandrup]

Only 71kWh is usable on the standard battery. So, slightly better. Still terrible.

That’s only 71 hours then . Thanks for the correction.

Sponsored

 

[Chris8536]

did his phone battery die too?! Mid post

Again, no surprise that you needed to charge twice on a 225 mile trip when driving over 80mph.

From Wired magazine:
https://www.wired.com/2011/04/what-will-an-85-mph-speed-limit-do-to-your-mileage/

While this chart is from a gas car, the calculation of increased drag and resultant loss in efficiency is similar to what you would see in an EV: at 100 mph you only get 55% of the range as you would at 75mph. I would say the Taycan would do better due to its lower drag, but there will still be a loss in efficiency.

Drive fast, but expect to charge more often.

completely a surprise to me. I drive 95mph all the way from SF to
LA and stop one time. And that’s 390 mi. This is a bizarre result.

 

[Jhenson29]

completely a surprise to me. I drive 95mph all the way from SF to
LA and stop one time. And that’s 390 mi. This is a bizarre result.

If you read the article, this graph is only for air resistance (they completely dropped the other term). If a vehicle has a higher ratio of rolling resistance to air resistance (um…higher than their theoretical zero) then the result is less. So, these graphs are not actual values for an actual car. In general, for a fixed rolling resistance, improvements to drag will improve the overall curve. Drag still takes over at speed and the shape will be still be mostly the same. But the actual decrease for a given speed delta may be less. The graph kind of acts as an upper bound with all cars almost certainly being some amount better.

 

[Chris8536]

If you read the article, this graph is only for air resistance (they completely dropped the other term). If a vehicle has a higher ratio of rolling resistance to air resistance (um…higher than their theoretical zero) then the result is less. So, these graphs are not actual values for an actual car. In general, for a fixed rolling resistance, improvements to drag will improve the overall curve. Drag still takes over at speed and the shape will be still be mostly the same. But the actual decrease for a given speed delta may be less. The graph kind of acts as an upper bound with all cars almost certainly being some amount better.

Yea I get that. I just meant his original story of charging to 0-85 two times when I average 95 for 390 mi and charge once 20-80.

 

[tomdfw1]

I made my first road trip from Plano to Conroe, Texas.; 224 miles away. I have a base Taycan 79kwh battery, which claims 210 miles but was told Porsche under promises and over delivers so I wanted to see if I can make it to Conroe with no stops! My white Taycan is optioned very well mission-E-esque. and I love this car...BUT!

A) There are 3 levels of charging: Level 1 is 120V home three prong standard which charges at 1Kwh. Level 2 is the 240V "dryer plug" outlet which charges at ~18kwh. Level 3 is at rapid charge stations like Electrify America and Porsche dealerships.
B) The car will charge with any charge station/network. All stations are standard except Tesla; which can still be used with an adapter at the end of their plug.
B) Electrify America network includes 3 years free charge at their stations. I was also told Porsche dealers as well; but they are now requiring manager approval each time.

I made a road trip planning to stop off at Electrify America, if necessary, to get from point A to B. I charged my car to 85% initially at home and went on my way.

There were 3 Electrify America stopovers (NONE in DFW metroplex but enough on major highways in all directions out) at Walmarts on the way...one about 70 miles (#1 Ennis) out, another at 150 (#2 Madisonville) and another about 175 miles out (Huntsville).

I saw I had about 180 miles range with battery at 85% so I needed Taycan for a major over delivery of range to get there on no charge. After driving 40 miles I saw I was tracking at the stated range or LESS; but I have a heavy foot and learned if you go over 70MPH it will detract from the stated range.

Ok, so with this knowledge I know I won't make it...so I need to stop at one of the three. If I can make it to Madisonville, I can get a good charge and then be able to get to Conroe and back to Madisonville again to get home to Plano. But after cruising at 80-110 MPH (hypothetically) my range is questionable to make it to Madisonville, much less Hunstville or Conroe, so I opted to stop at the Ennis location since it might be close making it to Madisonville. I charged to 85% again and went on my way. It dawned on me I would need to stop again if I were to make it to Conroe and then back out again to get home. So I stopped in Huntsville (#3).

So it took me 2 stops to make it 225 miles...but I was driving well over speed limit with 4 people and stereo jamming.

I will share my experience at EA station in follow up reply.

I Made it home on one charge with 13% to spare!

I charged the car from 51% to 95% in the couple days I had at family home on 120V outlet with the Porsche Mobile Charger Connect which averaged 9.9 Kw at 8A and 1.1Kw at 10A (I changed setting in mobile charger after confirming my fuse box had >10A fuse).

My return journey was 166 miles from house to the Ennis Electrify America and I showed I have 185 mile range on battery. Should make it I thought as long as I don't get too spirited in driving. Question mark arose if traffic got real bad with Christmas traffic; how might car respond going 0-30 in stop and go. So question still arose if it might be best to stop at an earlier station. But I went for it. Worst case would be to find a non EA station, if needed.

I had 4 people and headed NNW to Plano by means of Ennis Walmart EA (an exit on the way). I used the Porsche Connect App and selected the EA in Ennis and pushed button on app to "transfer to car". The Nav system shortly after asked to confirm destination at the Walmart in Ennis and I accepted on car. Not only did Nav kick in but an icon showing %battery left once I get there appears on Nav screen. Initially it said 10% battery would be left. This was really cool because it would fluctuate as I was driving to let me know, real time how I was doing. I had a 20mph tail wind and was cruising at about 75-85. About a quarter way to the Ennis EA and 10 miles before the last EA station before it, I looked at percentage remaining when destination reached and it now said 12%, so I was actually doing better then average, so I got a little more spirited and drove more in the left lane while monitoring the % left at destination.

I got to Ennis with 12% left; 31 miles. I plugged into the Electrify 350Kw station and tried to connect with the Porsche app to start charging. The app kept saying it had problem connecting but I looked at my light indicator on the car's charging port and it was flashing green; meaning it thinks it is charging. I tried a couple more times to connect via the app but eventually backed out of the app and confirmed I was charging and at about 235kw already up to 35% in a few minutes.

I walked over to have lunch at the Chili's and halfway through lunch checked the app and saw I was already at 93% and charging at a much reduced 33kw rate.

Finished lunch and unplugged with full a charge, uneventfully. This EA had 4 stations with 2 lines on each station but one screen (not sure if you can charge two cars on one station and share the screen or what?) This was considered the busiest travel day of the year. I saw one other car (Chevy Bolt) when I arrived and one car at station when I left. (an ugly unremarkable hybrid I forgot) On the drive down on Thursday there were no cars on either stop. (6pm and 8pm)

I learned a lot about the car and how to prepare for a journey after this first run. (Thanks to those that were constructive) Prevailing wind speed does make a big difference. I had a 20 mph head wind on way down and 20 mph tail wind on way up. I did drive somewhat slower on way up but feel the wind was a much bigger variable determinant to the better mileage.

Note: I thought EA only allows a 30 minute charge. My charge to fill up was 46 minutes, well over the 30 minute charge. They do not have my credit card info yet, so I don't worry about getting charged and doubt they will bill me. I am almost thinking that because my Porsche Connect software didn't officially connect but the charger charged anyway that it may have not enforced the 30 minute limit.

I hope this is helpful for the next NFG. Happy trails!
Tom

 

[Tandrup]

I Made it home on one charge with 13% to spare!

I charged the car from 51% to 95% in the couple days I had at family home on 120V outlet with the Porsche Mobile Charger Connect which averaged 9.9 Kw at 8A and 1.1Kw at 10A (I changed setting in mobile charger after confirming my fuse box had >10A fuse).

My return journey was 166 miles from house to the Ennis Electrify America and I showed I have 185 mile range on battery. Should make it I thought as long as I don't get too spirited in driving. Question mark arose if traffic got real bad with Christmas traffic; how might car respond going 0-30 in stop and go. So question still arose if it might be best to stop at an earlier station. But I went for it. Worst case would be to find a non EA station, if needed.

I had 4 people and headed NNW to Plano by means of Ennis Walmart EA (an exit on the way). I used the Porsche Connect App and selected the EA in Ennis and pushed button on app to "transfer to car". The Nav system shortly after asked to confirm destination at the Walmart in Ennis and I accepted on car. Not only did Nav kick in but an icon showing %battery left once I get there appears on Nav screen. Initially it said 10% battery would be left. This was really cool because it would fluctuate as I was driving to let me know, real time how I was doing. I had a 20mph tail wind and was cruising at about 75-85. About a quarter way to the Ennis EA and 10 miles before the last EA station before it, I looked at percentage remaining when destination reached and it now said 12%, so I was actually doing better then average, so I got a little more spirited and drove more in the left lane while monitoring the % left at destination.

I got to Ennis with 12% left; 31 miles. I plugged into the Electrify 350Kw station and tried to connect with the Porsche app to start charging. The app kept saying it had problem connecting but I looked at my light indicator on the car's charging port and it was flashing green; meaning it thinks it is charging. I tried a couple more times to connect via the app but eventually backed out of the app and confirmed I was charging and at about 235kw already up to 35% in a few minutes.

I walked over to have lunch at the Chili's and halfway through lunch checked the app and saw I was already at 93% and charging at a much reduced 33kw rate.

Finished lunch and unplugged with full a charge, uneventfully. This EA had 4 stations with 2 lines on each station but one screen (not sure if you can charge two cars on one station and share the screen or what?) This was considered the busiest travel day of the year. I saw one other car (Chevy Bolt) when I arrived and one car at station when I left. (an ugly unremarkable hybrid I forgot) On the drive down on Thursday there were no cars on either stop. (6pm and 8pm)

I learned a lot about the car and how to prepare for a journey after this first run. (Thanks to those that were constructive) Prevailing wind speed does make a big difference. I had a 20 mph head wind on way down and 20 mph tail wind on way up. I did drive somewhat slower on way up but feel the wind was a much bigger variable determinant to the better mileage.

Note: I thought EA only allows a 30 minute charge. My charge to fill up was 46 minutes, well over the 30 minute charge. They do not have my credit card info yet, so I don't worry about getting charged and doubt they will bill me. I am almost thinking that because my Porsche Connect software didn't officially connect but the charger charged anyway that it may have not enforced the 30 minute limit.

I hope this is helpful for the next NFG. Happy trails!
Tom

Great update Tom!

 

[tomdfw1]

Great update Tom!

Thanks T...I may be ready to take some 201 EV engineering courses now. Really appreciate your constructive insight.

 

[tomdfw1]

I’m confused by what lessons you learned. Just based on the stated facts it gives me the impression you haven’t fully figured out how EV’s work, or at least how to most effectively and efficiently use them. Like others have stated, not starting the trip at 100% and still hoping to make it non-stop is baffling, again, it gives me the sense that you are misunderstanding the 85% recommendation in the user manual. Also, the fact that you seem disappointed that you didn’t even get the estimated range when you are driving exceptionally fast. That gives me the sense you viewed battery capacity as a fixed distance, when it’s actually just the amount power available. How fast that power is depleted, and a resulting distance achieved, is a direct function of the rate of consumption.

As @Tandrup posted it’s not linear, power required is an exponential function of speed. To piggy back on his post, I’ve attached a sample speed/drag curve to help you visualize how much extra power you are consuming with your chosen driving speed. This is no different than an ICE vehicle, EV’s are generally more range limited than the ICE’s you are used to, so it emphasizes those limiting factors. You really have to look at an EV trip as an overall time, not just how fast you are driving to get there sooner. 225 miles at 65mph will take you 3 hours and 28 minutes. At your average speed of 95 it would take 2 hours and 22 minutes, but it took two stops to charge. You didn’t mention how long those stops were, so it’s hard to say which would take longer, but you can’t realistically be too disappointed with the Taycan’s range when you executed this trip in just about as an inefficient manner possible. If efficiency was secondary to the driving experience and enjoyment at 80-110, well that’s ok too, but you have to know to expect significantly reduced range.

Good points...the 85% charge was not a misunderstanding but instead because I had not changed my profile to go to 100% because I essentially knew I would stop once, since even if I did get there on a single charge, I wouldn't have enough to get back to a fast charge station. I also initially hadn't planned to bring my mobile charger. My "disappointment" was also based on not knowing the efficiencies of speed to mileage yet...and that I had hoped the understated EPA mileage might be more in my favor. I also never considered head winds. Everything makes sense. This was my first long drive and I feel comfortable with the variables to consider and better expectations and thanks to you all more in tune with my terms and engineering variables. Thanks

 

[mikeva]

.....

Note: I thought EA only allows a 30 minute charge. My charge to fill up was 46 minutes, well over the 30 minute charge. They do not have my credit card info yet, so I don't worry about getting charged and doubt they will bill me. I am almost thinking that because my Porsche Connect software didn't officially connect but the charger charged anyway that it may have not enforced the 30 minute limit.

I hope this is helpful for the next NFG. Happy trails!
Tom

Will be interested to hear with what happens with the 16 minute overrun. I would imagine that you have a cc on file with Porsche and I believe that is what will be charged ... I don't think you need to have an account with EA for the 30 mins and I think the "contract" is between the car and the EA unit don't think the software app is required. But then, that is just what I think I understand.....

 

[TycanNewHampshire]

Here is my EA 101.....document every time that you pull into a station and you can't use a certain bank, are unable to connect, charging is limited below 50kW, and all issues.

Then report this to EA and start to keep a log as there are many that are talking about potential litigation around 'false advertising'. There needs to be accountability at EA and no one is taking this seriously at their executive level.

We all purchased a non-tesla EV, due to the promise that the EA network is the 'largest' in the nation and on the value proposition that our lives would not be drastically disrupted more than the extent of the charging time that was advertised.

Unfortunately for me and many on this forum and those that own the Audi/VW and other versions, this is not reality. I have reported every issue to EA, never once have I got a phone call back to check on the status, or update me on fixes implemented at the station to implement corrective actions. There is zero sense of urgency on EA side as they have relied on government subsidies to help pad their pockets and have zero competitive free-market reasons to invest in fixing and upgrading their systems. Their view......'we understand and hope this isn't too much of an inconvenience".

Forget inconvenience, I can't function on a road-trip without being able to charge. Often, I rely on the charging app and if I pull into a station and it is not working, I don't have enough juice to go searching for an EV Go, Blink, Charge Point, etc. Not to mention, if the banks are always limited to under 50kW, why did I buy a Porsche? I am getting the same charging rate as the ChadMo Nisan Leaf customers. This takes a few hour trip into a full-day affair as you have to account for an additional 3-hours of charging time, if you can find a bank that is working.

This has to stop, EA needs to take action, we need to start collecting data, and compiling as a Tayacn community. One large voice, from a customer base that has the resources to take this more formal if needed and start to communicate with leadership at EA to get results.

Throughout history, the organization of the 'little people' has been the only way to get those in power to take notice and invest in change....when we start to take action as a united voice that represents all 11,642 Taycan owners in the US (as of November). One voice clearly does not get results.....I think it is time that we have a voice that represents almost 12k owners that can afford a $100k+ car.

........sorry for the rant and being slightly off topic, I just had another bad experience with charging today and just got home and saw this post and had to get it off my chest.

 

[daveo4EV]

Here is my EA 101.....document every time that you pull into a station and you can't use a certain bank, are unable to connect, charging is limited below 50kW, and all issues.

Then report this to EA and start to keep a log as there are many that are talking about potential litigation around 'false advertising'. There needs to be accountability at EA and no one is taking this seriously at their executive level.

We all purchased a non-tesla EV, due to the promise that the EA network is the 'largest' in the nation and on the value proposition that our lives would not be drastically disrupted more than the extent of the charging time that was advertised.

Unfortunately for me and many on this forum and those that own the Audi/VW and other versions, this is not reality. I have reported every issue to EA, never once have I got a phone call back to check on the status, or update me on fixes implemented at the station to implement corrective actions. There is zero sense of urgency on EA side as they have relied on government subsidies to help pad their pockets and have zero competitive free-market reasons to invest in fixing and upgrading their systems. Their view......'we understand and hope this isn't too much of an inconvenience".

Forget inconvenience, I can't function on a road-trip without being able to charge. Often, I rely on the charging app and if I pull into a station and it is not working, I don't have enough juice to go searching for an EV Go, Blink, Charge Point, etc. Not to mention, if the banks are always limited to under 50kW, why did I buy a Porsche? I am getting the same charging rate as the ChadMo Nisan Leaf customers. This takes a few hour trip into a full-day affair as you have to account for an additional 3-hours of charging time, if you can find a bank that is working.

This has to stop, EA needs to take action, we need to start collecting data, and compiling as a Tayacn community. One large voice, from a customer base that has the resources to take this more formal if needed and start to communicate with leadership at EA to get results.

Throughout history, the organization of the 'little people' has been the only way to get those in power to take notice and invest in change....when we start to take action as a united voice that represents all 11,642 Taycan owners in the US (as of November). One voice clearly does not get results.....I think it is time that we have a voice that represents almost 12k owners that can afford a $100k+ car.

........sorry for the rant and being slightly off topic, I just had another bad experience with charging today and just got home and saw this post and had to get it off my chest.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...ce-using-350kw-charger.4042/page-2#post-57023

Porsche’s legal department is at least as good as their mechanical engineering department - attempting to get them to legally respond to mispresentaiton on this topic will at least be an expensive excercise taking time and money if you feel you’ve been mislead - I would doubt you can return the vehicle based on your personal feeling of misrepresentation on this topic.

• at a minimum we’ll be onto the Taycan .2 or beyond if VW/Audi/Porsche were to ever “cop” to this via legal action

if you want an EV with a working charging network buy Tesla - if you want a car you can drive get a Taycan - but EA is a sh*tshow and will remain a sh*tshow cause it was not setup as a functional business, but rather as terms in a consent degree for a legal settlement in exchange for lying to the public about ICE combustion emissions and actively gaming the emission's testing systems - what do you honestly expect?

Porsche also said the Taycan would have OTA updates, tell that to my dealer that has now done 3 software updates all of which required I bring the vehicle to them for service…

I appreciate that you are learning -but so far your "lessons" are well covered by 2 years of posts on this forum - and the EA tantrum that we're all going to sue VW/Audi/Porsche/EA for "false" advertising continues to undermine my confidence that you are offering any meaningful feedback…

I honeslty hope you enjoy your Taycan, but driving an EV is not like driving an ICE vehicle, and EA does and will always suck because it's not a viable business and is not being run to be successful.

so far there is absolutly 100% nothing new/insightful in your posting - good luck - I expect you'll be ditching your Taycan in 6 months or less given that you appear to have done minimal actual research prior to purchasing.

 

[Tandrup]

Thanks T...I may be ready to take some 201 EV engineering courses now. Really appreciate your constructive insight.

Anytime Tom

 

[TycanNewHampshire]

your link and trouble with getting the charging started is not my challenge. The challenge is that the actual stations are not operating or are limited to below 50kW due to being upgraded.
Furthermore, it doesn't matter the genesis of why the company was started, it is the network supporting the Porsche EV and has an obligation to deliver on what it advertises as a service.
I clearly upset you. However, I fail to see how viewing the challenges of not having functioning charging banks and/or having them limited to less than 50kW has something to do with what research I did, prior to purchasing the car....this has zero correlation.
You also state that if I want a car with a charging network to buy a Tesla and if I want one to drive, buy a Taycan? I don't understand why this needs to be a choice....you can't drive a car for long-trips, at a reasonable charging rate, without having both.
You talk about not having any solutions, so I am all ears.....besides applying legal pressure to deliver on what is advertised, please let me know a better solution to ensuring that the charging banks are indeed functioning and working at a rate faster than 50kW. I have yet to see any solution that gets EA to pay attention and fix the network. There is an alternative though and since this was a government plea to get out of another fine, perhaps the better action is to apply that pressure of all owners to the lawmakers that were expecting a functional network for their transition to EV's to be successful.
As for the 6month thing, time will tell, but your presumptions that you know anything about my purchasing patterns are rich.
I also failed to realize that only posts that are insightful or useful were the criteria for a forum as you seem to have failed your own criteria by posting a ranting reply to my comment. Not sure why you are so angry or the thought of having a collective voice, that may make a difference, is so upsetting to you; however there has been no other method that has yielded an improvement in EA's response to complaints. To simply accept it is not an option for me, to accept the reason for EA's formation as an excuse is also not an option for me and as a combat vet, I don't do well with simply laying over.....

 

[feye]

This has to stop, EA needs to take action...

It'll get better with time. You can see it in Germany and China. Soon the Network in Europe is bigger and faster than...

 

[Windpower]

Question mark arose if traffic got real bad with Christmas traffic; how might car respond going 0-30 in stop and go.

In my experience driving in traffic, electric cars do BETTER (have longer range) than anticipated due to the slower speeds and regenerative braking. Stop and go traffic allows the EV to add power back to the battery when braking, though this is not 100% efficient as there are some loses.

As an example, yesterday I made an 80 mile trip to NYC. Initially the range indicator in the Taycan NAV system showed returning with 12% battery SOC. About 1/2 the trip was in stop and go traffic. I returned home with 19%. I have been driving EVs for 5+ years and this is typical: stop and go traffic tend to give better range than anticipated.

BTW: before leaving for the trip I wanted to try Electrify America charging. I normally charge at home but I wanted to make sure EA charging worked. So I drove to an EA station, plugged in my car and it started to charge at around 61 kwh. There were 6 Teslas, a Mustang and one Polestar also charging at the station. I would have expected the charging to be at the 250 kwh rate touted by EA, but I assume the rate was limited by the number of cars charging at the same time. Bottom line: EA just worked. I didn't need to do anything special.

An aside: the EA cable is HUGE. I know the Tesla charging cable is not too much larger than a home dryer cable, but the EA cable was much thicker. It took a bit of heft to get it plugged in.

Sponsored