Failed 14-50

[PDACPA]

Got home yesterday with 25% battery remaining and put it on my Chargepoint Homeflex and selected Direct Charging while I ate dinner and planned to turn off when I went to take out the trash. I just wanted to get a little charge on there in case I had to run out and then would let the planner charge to 80% overnight. I happened to hit the app and noticed the red error charging and it had only charged for a few minutes. Walked to the garage and here is what I found. Yes I know, the Hubbell is the recommended receptacle, but my electrician had installed a Leviton and I never unplug the Chargpoint and it has worked for 3.5 years.

Unfortunately it melted some of the Chargepoint plug as well as the receptacle. My question is, though the wiring sheath melted near the receptacle, can I cut off the wire and install a new receptacle? I have enough wire to do so or do I need to run new wire. The breaker appears fine.

Thanks

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[daveo4EV]

Got home yesterday with 25% battery remaining and put it on my Chargepoint Homeflex and selected Direct Charging while I ate dinner and planned to turn off when I went to take out the trash. I just wanted to get a little charge on there in case I had to run out and then would let the planner charge to 80% overnight. I happened to hit the app and noticed the red error charging and it had only charged for a few minutes. Walked to the garage and here is what I found. Yes I know, the Hubbell is the recommended receptacle, but my electrician had installed a Leviton and I never unplug the Chargpoint and it has worked for 3.5 years.

Unfortunately it melted some of the Chargepoint plug as well as the receptacle. My question is, though the wiring sheath melted near the receptacle, can I cut off the wire and install a new receptacle? I have enough wire to do so or do I need to run new wire. The breaker appears fine.

Thanks

not a Hubble industrial rated NEMA 14-50 outlet - but yeah that's pretty bad…

see Porsche's tech bulletin here: hubble part number provided - accept no substitutes…

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...-related-porsche-ntsb-article-analysis.13902/
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2022/MC-10222530-0001.pdf

 

[daveo4EV]

Got home yesterday with 25% battery remaining and put it on my Chargepoint Homeflex and selected Direct Charging while I ate dinner and planned to turn off when I went to take out the trash. I just wanted to get a little charge on there in case I had to run out and then would let the planner charge to 80% overnight. I happened to hit the app and noticed the red error charging and it had only charged for a few minutes. Walked to the garage and here is what I found. Yes I know, the Hubbell is the recommended receptacle, but my electrician had installed a Leviton and I never unplug the Chargpoint and it has worked for 3.5 years.

Unfortunately it melted some of the Chargepoint plug as well as the receptacle. My question is, though the wiring sheath melted near the receptacle, can I cut off the wire and install a new receptacle? I have enough wire to do so or do I need to run new wire. The breaker appears fine.

Thanks

I would confirm your ChargePoint flex is configured correctly - they can pull 50 amps - the correct setting for ChargePoint flex with NEMA 14-50 outlet is 50 amp breaker and 40 amp charge rate (9.6 kW raw power)

if you have enough wire you can replace the socket with an industrial grade socket - see part number's provided by Porsche's tech bulletin linked above - or you could hardiwre the ChargePoint and avoid this problem all together…

 

[hifi239]

Wow, that's ugly! It's not clear what actually failed, and given that, it might be better to pull new wire. You own two Porsches, one extremely valuable and probably in the same garage. I'd have an electrician pull new 6 AWG wire. The conduit is in place and there is existing wire, the pull might be easy. Then 1) connect to a new Hubbell, or better yet, 2) hardwire the flex and put in a 60A breaker and you can go up to 48A. What's the Flex plug look like?

 

[philbur]

I also see electrical tape wrapped around the plug? That looks sloppy to me. Should install with no additional items and def an industrial plug. I replaced my neighbors as his was tripping once in a while and when I went to look at it it was all white and heat cycled - tesla charger.

 

[PDACPA]

I would confirm your ChargePoint flex is configured correctly - they can pull 50 amps - the correct setting for ChargePoint flex with NEMA 14-50 outlet is 50 amp breaker and 40 amp charge rate (9.6 kW raw power)

if you have enough wire you can replace the socket with an industrial grade socket - see part number's provided by Porsche's tech bulletin linked above - or you could hardiwre the ChargePoint and avoid this problem all together…

Thanks Dave. Yes I had my ChargePoint configured correctly. Was pulling 8.7kW per the app.

My ChargePoint was not the hardwired version (but with the plug melted not sure it even works at this point), but I did wonder if I could just convert it to hardwired.

 

[PDACPA]

Wow, that's ugly! It's not clear what actually failed, and given that, it might be better to pull new wire. You own two Porsches, one extremely valuable and probably in the same garage. I'd have an electrician pull new 6 AWG wire. The conduit is in place and there is existing wire, the pull might be easy. Then 1) connect to a new Hubbell, or better yet, 2) hardwire the flex and put in a 60A breaker and you can go up to 48A. What's the Flex plug look like?

Here is the Flex Plug.

 

[hifi239]

could just convert it to hardwired

My understanding is that the ChargePoint Flex 14-50 is one of the few EVSE that can be converted to hardwired. I'd do that.

 

[PDACPA]

I would confirm your ChargePoint flex is configured correctly - they can pull 50 amps - the correct setting for ChargePoint flex with NEMA 14-50 outlet is 50 amp breaker and 40 amp charge rate (9.6 kW raw power)

if you have enough wire you can replace the socket with an industrial grade socket - see part number's provided by Porsche's tech bulletin linked above - or you could hardiwre the ChargePoint and avoid this problem all together…

Question about what should happen when this occurs.

Should the breaker trip? Mine did not. It is wired to my main panel where the power company power comes in and that panel has 3 breakers (one for the HVAC, one for the Main Panel in the garage for all the house) and one for the EV Chargers.

The Chargepoint lights went out. Car showed red on charge screen "error charging." I noticed the burn mark on the cover plate of the receptacle and then turned the breaker off and proceeded to unplug and unscrew. ChargePoint and Porsche App did not send a notification either.

 

[PDACPA]

My understanding is that the ChargePoint Flex 14-50 is one of the few EVSE that can be converted to hardwired. I'd do that.

I just pulled up some pictures of it (I'm at work) and looks like the plug can be disconnected and I can wire it direct. I think I might just go that route if I can determine if the ChargePoint was not impacted by the melted plug.

 

[DerekS]

If it were me I wouldn't want to reuse any of the items in the chain, here.

Not the Chargepoint and definitely not the wiring.

Call an electrician - not the one who did this in the first place - and have them run a new home-run to the breaker, new Hubble (or new hardwired EVSE) etc.

I just don't think it's worth taking chances with.

 

[Wakesurfer]

If it were me I wouldn't want to reuse any of the items in the chain, here.

Not the Chargepoint and definitely not the wiring.

Call an electrician - not the one who did this in the first place - and have them run a new home-run to the breaker, new Hubble (or new hardwired EVSE) etc.

I just don't think it's worth taking chances with.

What he said!!!

 

[trycan]

Should the breaker trip? Mine did not

If you had a GFCI breaker on the circuit, yes it would have tripped very quickly in this situation and likely avoided all the melting. However, the Chargepoint likely also has a GFI internally, and having both GFIs protecting the circuit can cause nuisance tripping (i.e. no actual problem).
GFCI breakers on the NEMA 14-50 outlets is a relatively new code requirement (last 5-yrs depending on your local regulations).
You could swap into a GFCI breaker and try the same wiring run again, or call the electrician like mentioned above and have them look at everything to make it right.

 

[Jhenson29]

I’ve been doing industrial electrical work for almost 20 years. I just had my NFPA 70E refresh training this morning, actually.

When we have charred wires in the field (typically from loose connections causing excessive heat from resistance, but occasionally from an arc) we typically just cut the wire and strip the insulation back past the point the of damage. It’s unlikely the entire cable needs to be replaced. In fact, I’ve never replaced an entire conductor due to charring at a connection, unless there wasn’t enough to reuse. You can always ohm the wires end to end if you want. Easiest way is to connect them together on one end and then check continuity between them on the other. It should be very low. Likely 0.2 ohms or less depending on how long your branch circuit is.

That said, it’s hard to tell how far back the insulation is damaged from the pictures. It’s hard to tell, but the wires look a little long to begin with. Cramming wires in a box, either because they’re too long or the box is too small (or both) means the heat may damage other parts of the wire pressed against it. Most of what I work on doesn’t have that issue.

Assuming the EVSE powers up after the plug is replaced or is hard-wired, I would think it’s probably fine.

I don’t know that I would expect the breaker to trip unless there was a direct short. I see lots of melting, but it’s not clear that anything is actually shorted. The melting itself would likely be from a poor connection which has increased resistance, causes a voltage drop, and dissipates heat. The current may have been within spec, and the circuit may have opened at the plug prior to shorting. Not sure.

 

[Jhenson29]

In any case….I wouldn’t reuse the receptacle….?

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