Is using fast charging exclusively discouraged?

[festus_mcBitcoin]

Future Taycan Turbo S owner, delivery date June 4, 2021.

I live in a high-rise so I can't install a dedicated charger in my home. Instead, I plan to use the DC fast charger at the neighborhood mall across the street, like maybe once a week. My thought is that if in fact the fast charger will get me to 80% in twenty-three minutes, I can simply leave it plugged in while I grab lunch at the mall.

I read elsewhere that consistently using a fast charger instead of the slow trickle chargers you see at these ubiquitous ChargePoint locations is hard on the battery. Is that the case? How negative are the effects? This is a three year lease so if the battery degradation doesn't show up for a period that exceeds three years, then no problem. I'm guessing since this model is only a year old, there's insufficient data to make a judgement one way or the other. But anecdotally, are any of you guys using fast charge routinely, and if so, have you seen notable degradation in battery life?

Another claim that keeps popping up is that the '12V battery is dead' bug is associated exclusively with the slower 'Level 2' chargers and, for that reason, using fast chargers would make me less vulnerable that particular bug. Not sure if that's true or not but figured it was worth mentioning.

Thanks!

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[daveo4EV]

once a week should be fine but not optimal - Taxi fleets that have exclusively “fast charged” Tesla’s see accelerated degradation of the LiON battery pack over 3-4 years - enough that they felt the need to replace the batteries…

in frequent use of fast charging is “in the noise” - and it take years to develop it’s impact on the battery - it’s gradual - and only noticible if you’re pushing close the full range of charge.

if you are fast charging slower is better (100 kW is beter than 150 which is better than 200 kW) - don’t push it always to 90% or more

but yeah in general fast charging for every charge cycle is not the best for the plan.

Might want to ask the high rise company to put in some L2 chargers for their current and future EV tenants - it would be better for the battery.

 

[W1NGE]

There is an option within vehicle settings / charging to enable protection (came out in MY21 cars) - this should give you the assurance needed.

 

[festus_mcBitcoin]

Might want to ask the high rise company to put in some L2 chargers for their current and future EV tenants - it would be better for the battery.

I checked PlugShare and indeed it appears that there's an L2 ChargePoint station in the garage of my building. I certainly don't mind leaving the car plugged in all night to a ChargePoint, but these horror stories of the 12V battery dying seem to be exclusively tied to L2 charging, so I guess I was hoping to avoid these chargers except in a pinch.

 

[PanameraFrank]

I checked PlugShare and indeed it appears that there's an L2 ChargePoint station in the garage of my building. I certainly don't mind leaving the car plugged in all night to a ChargePoint, but these horror stories of the 12V battery dying seem to be exclusively tied to L2 charging, so I guess I was hoping to avoid these chargers except in a pinch.

Oh man, you're reading too many horror stories. L2 charging doesn't cause the 12V problem and is, in fact, the best way to charge your car. Period.

Do you have an assigned parking spot? If so, you should be able to install a charger. You'll probably have to foot the bill and leave it when you move, but I'd think most buildings would be happy to have a tenant install a charger for them.

 

[Miwa]

If you aren't at really low battery % and it's not warm out, you are not likely to get much above 150kW when DC charging anyway. The 2021 can also limit DC fast charge rate.

 

[chrisk]

I charge weekly at the EA station located at the parking lot of the grocery store that I anyway go every week. I have used my home charger only twice mostly to verify that it works . Also 3 years lease and not driving a lot so I only need to add ~25% SOC every week.

Since my drive from home to the charge is only 2 mins, the battery is cold when I start charging and usually I am at SOC >60% and these two factors make DC charging really slow. I usually average ~30kw so I don't think that it is bad.

 

[W1NGE]

In follow up to my earlier post the official description reads as follows:

Charging while preserving the battery is a new function. This can restrict the charging capacity at suitable charging points (e.g. Ionity high-power charging stations) to around 200 kW, when customers are planning to take a longer break from driving. This extends the battery’s service life and reduces the overall power loss. Drivers can select the charging while preserving the battery function on the central display. Of course, if customers choose not to use this option, a charging capacity of up to 270 kW remains available at 800-volt high-power charging stations.

 

[chrisk]

I certainly don't mind leaving the car plugged in all night to a ChargePoint, but these horror stories of the 12V battery dying seem to be exclusively tied to L2 charging, so I guess I was hoping to avoid these chargers except in a pinch.

There is a difference when you use ChargePoint vs home charging. CP needs authentication (i.e. tap your CP card or use your phone) to start charging while your home charge does not. Why is this important?
As I have described in other posts for some unknown reason Taycan stops and restarts the charging session. (I see that in my home charger logs). Possibly that is a bug/issue with Taycan's charger. So when that happens at home, it is ok since restarting the session succeeds. But at Chargepoint it cannot because you have to be physically next to the station to tap your card/phone to restart. And you are probably right at worrying for getting a 12v dead battery with the car keep retrying to connect to CP charger.

It has actually happened to me while charging at CP. I received a notification from CP app that charging was manually interrupted (meaning someone unplugged the car) but I was right there and it was the case.

p.s. I remember that @daveo4EV had a graph proving charging session stopping and starting at his post the first time he was hit by the 12v issue.

 

[festus_mcBitcoin]

In follow up to my earlier post the official description reads as follows:

Charging while preserving the battery is a new function. This can restrict the charging capacity at suitable charging points (e.g. Ionity high-power charging stations) to around 200 kW, when customers are planning to take a longer break from driving. This extends the battery’s service life and reduces the overall power loss. Drivers can select the charging while preserving the battery function on the central display. Of course, if customers choose not to use this option, a charging capacity of up to 270 kW remains available at 800-volt high-power charging stations.

Oh ok, that actually sounds pretty good. 200 kW is plenty.

 

[festus_mcBitcoin]

It has actually happened to me while charging at CP. I received a notification from CP app that charging was manually interrupted (meaning someone unplugged the car) but I was right there and it was the case.

So if you didn't happen to be standing right there when the interruption occurred, you could've entered that loop of death where it keeps attempting to reconnect until the battery dies?

 

[chrisk]

So if you didn't happen to be standing right there when the interruption occurred, you could've entered that loop of death where it keeps attempting to reconnect until the battery dies?

It is likely unless the car has a maximum retry count. But I cannot trust this sw, since the problem already started with a bug i.e. interrupted charging session.

 

[PanameraFrank]

If you're concerned about the 12V problem, your best bet is to get a plug and play charger (such as ClipperCreek) and avoid using the connect app. Just plug in when you need to charge.

I've yet to hear of anyone with the 12V problem happening when they were using a simple plug-and-play charger without any custom settings or app usage. Basically treat it as a L1 charger and you'll be good to go.

 

[W1NGE]

Oh ok, that actually sounds pretty good. 200 kW is plenty.

Yep, so you can charge to your heart's content and if you enable the feature then you're doing everything Porsche advises you to do!

 

[kort]

once a week should be fine but not optimal - Taxi fleets that have exclusively “fast charged” Tesla’s see accelerated degradation of the LiON battery pack over 3-4 years - enough that they felt the need to replace the batteries…

I believe that tesla would limit the speeds of charging at a supercharger for high volume users.

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