[North America] - this is getting embarrassing - Porsche nerfing/neutering the PMCC via OTA update?

[Bill33525]

plugs are the same

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[Bill33525]

The etron is 10AWG 5.26; Taycan 5.3

 

[Bill33525]

The calipers were placed on the etron wire and then on the Taycan wire. Notice the gap. The etron wire may feel cooler due to larger insulation.

 

[daveo4EV]

thank you for doing this - I"m wondering what the difference is - nothing jumps out at me - thicker insulation would make a difference

things that make you go hmmmm

does your eTron charge at the full 40 amps?

 

[snstevens]

REALLY- this is NEWS - do you have a photo of "said" unit - and which cable is "updated" - part #? is this the power supply to PMCC/PMC+ segment, or the cable segment from the PMCC/PMC+ to the vehicle.

photos of both ends of the cable (w/part number) and the cable itself would be appreciated

if you inspect the cable the wire-gauge should be embossed on the cable itself - it would be news if the wire-gauge indicated on the cable itself was not 10 AWG…

my 2021 Cayenne's PMCC still has the same physical cable as my 2020 Taycan PMCC - and 10 AWG wire…

please share details if you can - this would be news and progress in my opinion.

if there is a new power supply cable and part number - maybe we can get @snstevens to ask his CEO buddy to get us all upgrades to the newer/cooler (thermally) power supply cable.

more details please if you can.

a photo like the one in this post would be ideal if possible…

side by side photos of the two cables also might be interesting if the Audi part # is "thicker" and it would show up in the photo.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/nema-14-50-supply-cable-heat-data.1940/page-13#post-191890

During my upcoming call with Porsche NA I plan to propose a couple of options for correcting the situation. Here is what I had in mind, and I'm open to feedback --

• Repair and Return to Full 9.6KW Capability - Replacement of the cables with 8 gauge cables, replaceable by the owner.
  • Following cable update we could each safely charge at 40A again, but eventually we need a SW update to get rid of the automatic update to 20A feature.
  • The SW if a bit tricky since Porsche can't roll out a new SW update if many in NA are still using the 10 gauge cables. To make this work the replacement of the cables might have to happen at the Dealer, and some sort of setting changed in the PMCC itself to allow a future update to restore full 40A charging capability.
• Full Refund - Porsche to offer a full refund upon return of the PMCC.
• EA Lifetime & Partial Refund - Upon return of the PMCC, Porsche NA to offer a partial refund (say $500-$550) and lifetime free EA charging for the current owner of the car.

I think all three of these are acceptable to me, and yet I'd like to get your thoughts.

For the record, I am also assuming that someone from Porsche NA monitors this thread (I know I would if I had a liability issue like this that might necessitate a recall on the horizon), so let's be thoughtful about this.

BTW, there is no assurance I get a callback on Friday, but I'm hopeful.

 

[Bill33525]

thank you for doing this - I"m wondering what the difference is - nothing jumps out at me - thicker insulation would make a difference

things that make you go hmmmm

does your eTron charge at the full 40 amps?

Both cars draw 36 amps. 8.8kW/240=36 amps; The Audi 8.7kW.

 

[daveo4EV]

During my upcoming call with Porsche NA I plan to propose a couple of options for correcting the situation. Here is what I had in mind, and I'm open to feedback --

• Repair and Return to Full 9.6KW Capability- Replacement of the cables with 8 gauge cables, replaceable by the owner.
  • Following cable update we could each safely charge at 40A again, but eventually we need a SW update to get rid of the automatic update to 20A feature.
  • The SW if a bit tricky since Porsche can't roll out a new SW update if many in NA are still using the 10 gauge cables. To make this work the replacement of the cables might have to happen at the Dealer, and some sort of setting changed in the PMCC itself to allow a future update to restore full 40A charging capability.
• Full Refund - Porsche to offer a full refund upon return of the PMCC.
• EA Lifetime & Partial Refund - Upon return of the PMCC, Porsche NA to offer a partial refund (say $500-$550) and lifetime free EA charging for the current owner of the car.

I think all three of these are acceptable to me, and yet I'd like to get your thoughts.

For the record, I am also assuming that someone from Porsche NA monitors this thread (I know I would if I had a liability issue like this that might necessitate a recall on the horizon), so let's be thoughtful about this.

BTW, there is no assurance I get a callback on Friday, but I'm hopeful.

this is a great list - I would avoid being "prescriptive" - i.e. dictating a new cable is the solution - I don't believe we have enough data to drive this as a solution - we should simply ask Porsche to provide a 9.6 kW EVSE - and leave it to them how they accomplish that.

 

[daveo4EV]

Both cars draw 36 amps. 8.8kW/240=36 amps; The Audi 8.7kW.

what does the screen on the PMCC say for amps?

in car reports power "at the battery" which will be less than the "raw" power "at the wall".

 

[snstevens]

this is a great list - I would avoid being "prescriptive" - i.e. dictating a new cable is the solution - I don't believe we have enough data to drive this as a solution - we should simply ask Porsche to provide a 9.6 kW EVSE - and leave it to them how they accomplish that.

Agreed.

 

[daveo4EV]

this is a great list - I would avoid being "prescriptive" - i.e. dictating a new cable is the solution - I don't believe we have enough data to drive this as a solution - we should simply ask Porsche to provide a 9.6 kW EVSE - and leave it to them how they accomplish that.

During my upcoming call with Porsche NA I plan to propose a couple of options for correcting the situation. Here is what I had in mind, and I'm open to feedback --

• Repair and Return to Full 9.6KW Capability- Replacement of the cables with 8 gauge cables, replaceable by the owner.
  • Following cable update we could each safely charge at 40A again, but eventually we need a SW update to get rid of the automatic update to 20A feature.
  • The SW if a bit tricky since Porsche can't roll out a new SW update if many in NA are still using the 10 gauge cables. To make this work the replacement of the cables might have to happen at the Dealer, and some sort of setting changed in the PMCC itself to allow a future update to restore full 40A charging capability.
• Full Refund - Porsche to offer a full refund upon return of the PMCC.
• EA Lifetime & Partial Refund - Upon return of the PMCC, Porsche NA to offer a partial refund (say $500-$550) and lifetime free EA charging for the current owner of the car.

I think all three of these are acceptable to me, and yet I'd like to get your thoughts.

For the record, I am also assuming that someone from Porsche NA monitors this thread (I know I would if I had a liability issue like this that might necessitate a recall on the horizon), so let's be thoughtful about this.

BTW, there is no assurance I get a callback on Friday, but I'm hopeful.

my update to this EXCELLENT list - 3 cheers for @snstevens for spearheading this.

• Repair or Replace PMC+/PMCC to a Full 9.6KW/40 AMP Capability- porsche to determine if this is feasible
• Full Refund - Porsche to offer a full refund upon return of the PMCC/PMC+
• in all cases (repair, replace, refund) - extend EA charging for 3 additional years for any owners affected by this unfortunate circumstance.

basically customer can either

• wait for a "repair" of their current unit (if possible)
• obtain a new replacement unit (if/when)
• or request a full refund
• in all case regardless of what choice the customer makes - they will received an additional 3 years included EA charging.

 

[Bill33525]

what does the screen on the PMCC say for amps?

in car reports power "at the battery" which will be less than the "raw" power "at the wall".

I do not have the charger with display screen. It's possible the the quality of the wire in the Prosche charger has more resistance than the etron unit?
My CP Flex Home charger says 9.4kW going to the car. So 9.4/240= 39 amps at the 14-50 outlet.

 

[daveo4EV]

I do not have the charger with display screen. It's possible the the quality of the wire in the Prosche charger has more resistance than the etron unit?
My CP Flex Home charger says 9.4kW going to the car. So 9.4/240= 39 amps at the 14-50 outlet.

that would be inline -with expectations - 9.6 @ the power outlet (like your flex charger) should yield the numbers you are seeing in vehicle

I wonder why the Audi charger is "running" cooler - any temp measurements after an hour or so of charging

something like the following comparing the two would be interesting.

you can just share the numbers if you feel like I t- I"m most interested in the "supply" cable temperatures and ambient temp at the time of measure

this is 100% optional but if you're willing I"m sure we'd all appreciate the data…

 

[RehobothTaycan1]

Been flawless for 15 months. Now after this latest software update I continuously get this error. So frustrating

 

[DerekS]

Been flawless for 15 months. Now after this latest software update I continuously get this error. So frustrating

If it works like the PMC+ does, there's a toggle to check grounding or not. Perhaps that was off before the update, and is now on?

In either case I would contact the electrician and have them check it as suggested. Better safe than sorry.

 

[TDinDC]

During my upcoming call with Porsche NA I plan to propose a couple of options for correcting the situation. Here is what I had in mind, and I'm open to feedback --

• Repair and Return to Full 9.6KW Capability- Replacement of the cables with 8 gauge cables, replaceable by the owner.
  • Following cable update we could each safely charge at 40A again, but eventually we need a SW update to get rid of the automatic update to 20A feature.
  • The SW if a bit tricky since Porsche can't roll out a new SW update if many in NA are still using the 10 gauge cables. To make this work the replacement of the cables might have to happen at the Dealer, and some sort of setting changed in the PMCC itself to allow a future update to restore full 40A charging capability.
• Full Refund - Porsche to offer a full refund upon return of the PMCC.
• EA Lifetime & Partial Refund - Upon return of the PMCC, Porsche NA to offer a partial refund (say $500-$550) and lifetime free EA charging for the current owner of the car.

I think all three of these are acceptable to me, and yet I'd like to get your thoughts.

For the record, I am also assuming that someone from Porsche NA monitors this thread (I know I would if I had a liability issue like this that might necessitate a recall on the horizon), so let's be thoughtful about this.

BTW, there is no assurance I get a callback on Friday, but I'm hopeful.

I can understand why any of these options would be acceptable, but, from a practical standpoint, the third one is extraordinarily complicated. I could see a credit for EA equaling the full cost of the PMCC if they were unwilling to provide a cash refund. Perhaps only offering the first two is a better place to start, with the third as I proposed as a fallback.

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