[Perspective] - A happy Taycan owner road trip’s his Daughter’s Model Y…

[rich_r]

Had a similar experience with a RWD Model 3 that I rented in LA this past weekend. Supercharging is easy, ubiquitous and relatively quick. The car itself does pretty much everything you need from a transportation device. And, yeah, an EV drivetrain is superior to probably 90% of ICE alternatives (everything other than stuff like nice sounding v8s, v12s, and flat sixes). Totally agree that it shows how far behind other cars are in terms of software and charging network. The car did feel a bit cheap, and its not something I really want...but it does act as a counterpoint to almost every other daily driver type vehicle. Other than the stupid exterior door handle design, it doesn't really "get in your way"; the tech works pretty seamlessly and you kinda just forget about it and go about your business. I do hope Porsche signs on to allow customers to use the Tesla network with an adaptter, but I'm doubtful given VW groups ownership of EA. Also interesting note about how the Tesla charged more seamlessly at an EA station than your Taycan...so theres clearly more work that Porsche (and others) could do to imporve the charging exerperience even at CCS stations.

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[whitex]

Hello White.

Yes, I will most likely fly. When I've taken my Cayenne on a long road trip I try to keep the cruise control speed set at 88mph (yes, I'm a big fan of the Back To The Future movies). The last road trip I took was to Vail Colorado a trip of 720 miles. Including my stops for fuel and food, I spent 11 hours on the road. So I averaged 65 mph even though I tried to cruise at 88 mph whenever possible and safe. I guess my stops for food were too leisurely.

Taycan is actually a fast charging EV, so that makes the difference small. In the end the difference between the Taycan and the Cayenne would be negligible to me. The only time Cayenne would be better is when traveling into areas without working 150KW+ DC charging.

 

[daveo4EV]

Had a similar experience with a RWD Model 3 that I rented in LA this past weekend. Supercharging is easy, ubiquitous and relatively quick. The car itself does pretty much everything you need from a transportation device. And, yeah, an EV drivetrain is superior to probably 90% of ICE alternatives (everything other than stuff like nice sounding v8s, v12s, and flat sixes). Totally agree that it shows how far behind other cars are in terms of software and charging network. The car did feel a bit cheap, and its not something I really want...but it does act as a counterpoint to almost every other daily driver type vehicle. Other than the stupid exterior door handle design, it doesn't really "get in your way"; the tech works pretty seamlessly and you kinda just forget about it and go about your business. I do hope Porsche signs on to allow customers to use the Tesla network with an adaptter, but I'm doubtful given VW groups ownership of EA. Also interesting note about how the Tesla charged more seamlessly at an EA station than your Taycan...so theres clearly more work that Porsche (and others) could do to imporve the charging exerperience even at CCS stations.

when traveling these days if possible I rent a model 3 - it's better than 98% of what you're going to get as a rental - I agree 100% with your comments.

 

[whitex]

when traveling these days if possible I rent a model 3 - it's better than 98% of what you're going to get as a rental - I agree 100% with your comments.

I just booked a trip to California for later this month, Model 3 was the cheapest option at Hertz, other that the “mystery car”. Even Economy was more expensive.

 

[PorscheGuyFromAZ]

when traveling these days if possible I rent a model 3 - it's better than 98% of what you're going to get as a rental - I agree 100% with your comments.

If renting a Model 3 from Hertz, what level of charge do they typically give you are the start of the rental? And does Hertz require that you return the vehicle with a higher state of charge than at the start of the rental?

 

[Jonathan S.]

If renting a Model 3 from Hertz, what level of charge do they typically give you are the start of the rental? And does Hertz require that you return the vehicle with a higher state of charge than at the start of the rental?

I've found many conflicting references to this, since I'm contemplating such a rental at the end of the month, especially since that way I won't have to gas up at 4am (literally) in advance of my return flight.
The most likely answer seems to be the lesser of 70% or whatever the SoC was upon the start of the rental.
Even if that is off, it's not something brutal like, say, 90%, that would require recharging immediately before returning it.
I also researched some posts at the Tesla forum about renting Teslas on trips, and works out really well, even if they were complaining about missing out on various convenience features that they're used to with their own Teslas for pairing the virtual key, etc.
The only negative reviews I found were from renters who ended up with a Tesla as the Manager Mystery Special without any prior EV experience, and were totally lost on the whole public charging protocol.

 

[Jonathan S.]

Taycan is actually a fast charging EV, so that makes the difference small. In the end the difference between the Taycan and the Cayenne would be negligible to me. The only time Cayenne would be better is when traveling into areas without working 150KW+ DC charging.

True, but ...
... depending on the definition of "working" that could end up putting lots of miles on your Cayenne.

For example, here is my research for a family trip tomorrow of EA locations in north suburban Boston (with all the other CCS networks having just one or two DCFC chargers per location):

https://www.plugshare.com/location/358915
Out of commission -- under repair/replacement since Jul 23.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/186838
Out of commission -- under repair/replacement since Jul 31.
Previously, out of the three units, one had been broken for "many" months and the other two were in the 30s for kW.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/199396
Three units, two of which have been broken for months.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/453377
Three units, of which only two at most are ever working.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/262763
Three units, of which only one is currently working.

BTW, the most EA anger seems to be at the Lucid forum, perhaps b/c the owners not only paid lots of $ for their cars but also were subjected to marketing hype on the extra speedy charging, which is available -- at least in theory -- almost exclusively at EA locations.
Here is perhaps the most entertaining post:
"Today at the EA in Rocklin CA people were FURIOUS. out of about 10 stations 2 or 3 were working. A woman pulled up on a beautiful Mercedes, tried a few and screamed "I hate my car.". I tried to explain it wasn't her car it was EA. Another lucid was there, owner on the phone trying to sell his car back to lucid because so impossible to charge [...]"

 

[PorscheGuyFromAZ]

True, but ...
... depending on the definition of "working" that could end up putting lots of miles on your Cayenne.

For example, here is my research for a family trip tomorrow of EA locations in north suburban Boston (with all the other CCS networks having just one or two DCFC chargers per location):

https://www.plugshare.com/location/358915
Out of commission -- under repair/replacement since Jul 23.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/186838
Out of commission -- under repair/replacement since Jul 31.
Previously, out of the three units, one had been broken for "many" months and the other two were in the 30s for kW.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/199396
Three units, two of which have been broken for months.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/453377
Three units, of which only two at most are ever working.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/262763
Three units, of which only one is currently working.

BTW, the most EA anger seems to be at the Lucid forum, perhaps b/c the owners not only paid lots of $ for their cars but also were subjected to marketing hype on the extra speedy charging, which is available -- at least in theory -- almost exclusively at EA locations.
Here is perhaps the most entertaining post:
"Today at the EA in Rocklin CA people were FURIOUS. out of about 10 stations 2 or 3 were working. A woman pulled up on a beautiful Mercedes, tried a few and screamed "I hate my car.". I tried to explain it wasn't her car it was EA. Another lucid was there, owner on the phone trying to sell his car back to lucid because so impossible to charge [...]"

It’s stories like this that make me say I will only take my ICE Cayenne on a long road trip. There is way too much downside risk in driving a Taycan and playing Russian Roulette every time you need to recharge.

 

[whitex]

True, but ...
... depending on the definition of "working" that could end up putting lots of miles on your Cayenne.

For example, here is my research for a family trip tomorrow of EA locations in north suburban Boston (with all the other CCS networks having just one or two DCFC chargers per location):

https://www.plugshare.com/location/358915
Out of commission -- under repair/replacement since Jul 23.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/186838
Out of commission -- under repair/replacement since Jul 31.
Previously, out of the three units, one had been broken for "many" months and the other two were in the 30s for kW.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/199396
Three units, two of which have been broken for months.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/453377
Three units, of which only two at most are ever working.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/262763
Three units, of which only one is currently working.

BTW, the most EA anger seems to be at the Lucid forum, perhaps b/c the owners not only paid lots of $ for their cars but also were subjected to marketing hype on the extra speedy charging, which is available -- at least in theory -- almost exclusively at EA locations.
Here is perhaps the most entertaining post:
"Today at the EA in Rocklin CA people were FURIOUS. out of about 10 stations 2 or 3 were working. A woman pulled up on a beautiful Mercedes, tried a few and screamed "I hate my car.". I tried to explain it wasn't her car it was EA. Another lucid was there, owner on the phone trying to sell his car back to lucid because so impossible to charge [...]"

I get there are out of commission stations. I do however wonder, would you have been able to make this trip at all in a Taycan, would Taycan or ABRP route you around the broken chargers if they show unavailable? How likely is it that you'd get stranded or that Taycan would tell you there is route possible? I've done some road tripping with the Taycan, and while I have encountered some broken or limited DC chargers, there usually was no emergency or significant delays. The longest trip was 3,500 miles across the USA, where I didn't even pre-plan, just punched it into ABRP and started driving - made it there 30 chargers later. Did I accomplish a hole-in-one EV tripping equivalent with the coast to coast trip? If you read some of the posts here, making it 3,500 miles in a new Taycan, in a winter using the heater, without a break down might be considered getting lucky too. Is the internet amplifying people's fears, both through exceptionally bad experiences and by presenting available/broken chargers online? 1 of 3 chargers offline might not be a big deal if it's rarely used, but looks bad when you try to plan a trip for example. I remember experiencing some anxiety back in 2016 when road tripping coast to coast and seeing reports about 1 of 4 Tesla bays broken in the middle of a charging desert. But when I got there, there was only one other car there, 3rd one came just as I was leaving, so that didn't cause me any issues, other than anxiety before getting there (I was imagining long lines of Teslas I guess).

As for people getting mad at their car, they are not entirely irrational. If you bought a car which runs exclusively on jet fuel, or on hydrogen, you might end up hating the car because of lack of fueling opportunities. Then again, are people hating their ICE cars in your neck of the woods because gas stations are disappearing across the state? It's not like EV, you don't leave your home with your "tank" full every day.

 

[daveo4EV]

I came away from my week long trip with the following feeling…

• supecharger's enable EV ownership and travel - supercharging is enabling
• EA punishes EV ownership and travel - EA is punitive

I'm starting to wonder if it's on purpose…

 

[daveo4EV]

back in Taycan today after trip…8 days exclusively in a Model Y - returning to my normal…

• OMG the seats are sooooo much better
• quiet cabin - where is all the road noise and wind noise? Oh yeah - Taycan is vastly better for road noise/wind
• ample power - perhaps a bit smoother than Tesla's excellent drive train
• why did the PCM spin in black screen for like 10 minutes? oh good it's back now
• cabin/interior is much nicer than Model Y "duh"
• steering feel is better
• didn't fast charge today so we're good - all daily trips!
• wireless carplay oh how I missed you…
• still miss one pedal driving - it really should be optional driver config, but I quickly adapted
• corner hugging is off the charts good
• phone as a key/fob is slick - buddy has it for his BMW X5 - no word from VW/Audi/Porsche
• why are there all those annoying "tips" in the PCM - Porsche needs some software/UserExperience help
• yes I know the map was updated, well honestly I don't - but I don't CARE!
• oh man this thing is glued to the road - OMG Porsche is sooo awesome

Better, nicer car no doubt - probably the best non-Tesla EV on the market.

• Best Appliance EV - Tesla no doubt - and I'll take it over 90% of "normal" ICE vehicles
• Better Car - Taycan no doubt - if we fix the road trip charging situation it would be nearly perfect.
  • not going back to Tesla - but if there wasn't the Taycan not sure what I'd do for a good EV.

Will be in a Model 3 rental end of sept. - visiting out of state for a family wedding - will most likley prefer the Model 3 as a great appliance vs. most of the the standard rental car options - most ICE gas cars and their transmissions suck - a nice powerful smooth EV drive train and lots of volume/cargo wins IMHO if you can't drive a Taycan

wow the past week 1/2 has been a blur…

dropped payment for the GT3 RS today - 21 days out - that's one ICE I'll take over any EV

 

[Tooney]

Today I received this reply. While there is no news regarding NACS or SuC, I was pleased there was no use of ChatGPT to craft the response

PCNA customer service needs to up its game for executive replies to its customers, per @Jonathan S. method.

 

[gtm]

I came away from my week long trip with the following feeling…

• supecharger's enable EV ownership and travel - supercharging is enabling
• EA punishes EV ownership and travel - EA is punitive

I'm starting to wonder if it's on purpose…

I've done a fair number of road trips in both a Tesla S and Taycan. As you noted, the contrast is huge. If you visit EA chargers you have to wonder who could be subjected to the experience and conclude CCS EVs are a good option out on the road (which is exactly where DCFCs would be used). So you are not alone suspecting that the current EA charging experience is deliberate and it certainly is punitive.

 

[Valen]

Just a glimpse from the "future" (Europe in terms of charging facilities)

In France there is plenty of fast charging station on highways and we have also acces to Tesla superchagers. I really loved every trip i made with my previous Tesla (Model 3 Perf) and after 1 year of ownership and a few roadtrip i can compare the Taycan experience

I just did 1200 miles in 72h so here is a summary:

1. The taycan preconditionning sucks but the 800v makes up for it. The car is charging way faster than my Tesla did. 5 to 50 there's not so much difference because they are both at peak charge. After 50 it's another story. The Tesla charge speed dropped a lot, the Taycan was still charging at 120kwh at 80%. All in all i spent a lot less time charging.
2. confortwise: the Taycan is by far the most comfy (18 way seats) even if you can't let the car drive itself as much as the tesla.
3. efficiency: the tesla is more efficient but the taycan range is less impacted by speed. On the highway i drive at 90mph (legal speed is 80mph) which is the top speed in range mode and my consumption is more or less the same than it was with the Tesla. The slower i drive the less efficient the taycan is in comparison of the Tesla.

On the last trip i also noted 2 things:
- with a good charging infracstructure, the taycan is really faster on long trips (thanks 800v)
- i did 600 miles with a 911 and a Cayenne which were driving roughly 5 miles slower than me. Despite the charging sessions i ended the trip 15 min before them. So all in all there's much difference with ICE on long trips once you have a good charging network (that work)

 

[Jonathan S.]

I get there are out of commission stations. I do however wonder, would you have been able to make this trip at all in a Taycan, would Taycan or ABRP route you around the broken chargers if they show unavailable? [...] Then again, are people hating their ICE cars in your neck of the woods because gas stations are disappearing across the state? It's not like EV, you don't leave your home with your "tank" full every day.

The short answer to the first q is that the trip would have been fine with my future theoretical 4CT.
Details here for the planning and outcome with my (wife's) i4 M50 (~280 mi typical range, as compared to the 271 EPA rating, so close to the 4CT):
https://www.i4talk.com/threads/deli...ery-special-road-trip.8345/page-9#post-195719

As for gas stations, that article looks more like evidence of lame Boston Globe reporting than anything else.
(My wife has a subscription, but I hardly ever read it, relying instead of the NYT for Massachusetts news. Oddly enough, the weekly paper for little Amherst is quite good.)

The article at least briefly alludes to how only the little gas stations are closing down.
The total number of pumps might if anything be increasing.
During out trips to Boston, gas stations still seem to be ... everywhere: on the Mass Pike, in downtown, along secondary highways, etc.

Since moving to Amherst in 2006, the total number of gas stations on the nearby strip mall and at the I-91 exit has gone up, and the total number of pumps has gone up even more, since all the new stations are massive. (Also a Tesla Supercharger station, with 12 units, all of which presumably actually work, and at their rated speed too.)

When we lived in Cambridge's Porter Square, we had a unusually high number of off-brand stations, buying on the spot market, which made them quite a bit cheaper (except when prices were rapidly rising, when they would if anything exceed the branded stations since the spot market was working against them).
Jack's Gas was memorable for its gruff full-serve staff, who treated most drivers with utter contempt for failure to follow the station's exacting protocols in exactly the preferred manner.
Another station had attendants who looked like they'd just been placed on the Do Not Fly list.

But despite their low prices, one station was always consistently lower by a few cents.
The Boston Globe, to its credit, ran a great piece, in which the owners of the other stations were baffled by how they could be consistently undercut, since they all bought gas on the same spot market, resold for low margins, with most of their income coming from sales (often to walk-up customers, not even drivers) of cigs, beer, lottery tix, and perhaps other vices too.
The reporter was actually able to reach by phone the owner of the undercutting station: on his yacht, off the coast of Greece.

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