Safer or better driving experience with energy recovery?

[OzzieT]

A few weeks ago I had a very low speed, minor collision, necessitating a few weeks off the road for body shop repairs. I hit the brakes pretty hard but the Taycan is a very heavy car and no matter what the speed, it takes a bit of stopping. I 'just' hit the car in front of me and the tow bar height on the SUV was perfectly positioned to punch a hole in my lower front bumper.

Since receiving my car from the repairers, I am a little more wary of low speed collisions. Applying the brake pedal is different in the Taycan over my previous ICE vehicles. It seems the brake is not as responsive or instantaneous with a gentle push, and I don't know if that is due to the fact it is electronic, or if the car is so heavy, or both. High speed braking seems more normal, but low speed braking feels different and there have been a couple of other close shaves.

Recently I switched on energy recovery. This is different to regenerative braking, so is called energy recovery in the Taycan (except if you search for it in the online manual in the Porsche app when you need to use 'recuperation' as the search term). There is no reason why I had it switched off to begin with other than I'm new to EV's. Mine is now set to 'Auto' and it has made a profoud difference. Not so much from a battery perspective, but rather a driving experience.

When you lift your foot off the accelerator, energy recovery kicks in and immediately creates a decelaration effect. I'm now finding that reassuring from a driving perspective, especially at lower speeds. Energy recovery is commencing the braking motion before I have a chance to touch the brake, and when I do touch the brake, it seems it has more of an immediate impact. Aside from the reassurance, it does make the driving experience feel safer.

Interested in thoughts and perspectives from the EV pro's and the newbies like me.

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[Jhenson29]

Other people have complained about the low speed braking; the transition from regen to friction, I think. They can correct me if I’m wrong.

But I’ve never felt anything odd about it myself. I’ve never paid specific attention to it. But I’ve never felt the brakes didn’t behave as I expect them to and have never felt like the car wasn’t decelerating or stopping as intended.

I almost always have overrun recup off. I only occasionally turn it on momentarily while going downhill or something. And I never use auto.

 

[mandoyoda]

Just remember that if you haven’t driven your
Taycan for 24 hours, the brake regen will be disabled to allow cleaning of the brake disc, so braking will use the discs and feel mushy for a mile or so before the regen braking becomes available.

 

[WuffvonTrips]

But I’ve never felt anything odd about it myself. I’ve never paid specific attention to it. But I’ve never felt the brakes didn’t behave as I expect them to and have never felt like the car wasn’t decelerating or stopping as intended.

Same here.

I almost always have overrun recup off. I only occasionally turn it on momentarily while going downhill or something. And I never use auto.

Same re auto- I don't like any non-emergency system that hands routine driving decisions to the car (same for ACC- though I acknowledge the benefits of both).
But I nearly always have overrun recup on- I like the effectively reduced transition time from accelerator to brake pedal (and ICE feel)- though I do switch to coasting on rare quiet motorway runs.

 

[sufcrusher]

Always feels pretty normal to me. Yes, heavy car. The braking is a bit progressive, so when you lightly touch the pedal, you're not immediately jerking your passengers around. It does have brake assist though where, when it detects that you let go of the throttle quickly and press the brake quickly (i.e. typical emergency/panic situation), it will actually help you by pulling down the brake pedal for you: quicker and harder than you'd normally brake with the same foot pressure.

Driving on the Active Cruise Control would also have saved you here. I often just enable it even at a low speed: then you get high recuperation (deceleration) when above the set speed and automatic full stop based on distance.

And what probably would have saved you as well (and is less invasive/annoying) is setting it to Automatic Recuperation. That's also distance based., so not invasive at all as long as there is no car in front of you. I don't think it will make a full stop, but it will decelerate the car a bit, waking you up from your distraction and triggering your brake reflex.

I have Automatic Recuperation enabled in the Individual driving mode, so all I need to do is switch to that drive mode once and it will stay on for the whole trip. Holding the recuperation button for a second will also turn on/off the Auto mode, but it won't persist when you change drive mode.

 

[cyiril4j]

Regenerative braking does happen (to a higher degree than most other EVs actually), but only when you hit the brakes. Overrun recuperation aka one-pedal driving is what you're referring to here I think. Even when turned on, it's very mild on the Taycan compared to over EVs anyway so not sure it'd have save you here. You do have to hit the brakes to stop. I love coasting so overrun recuperation is always off for me. It's a driving experience much closer to ICE imho and that was a major reason for me to select the Taycan vs other EVs.

 

[Tycan keith]

So, my understanding of it is.....
When you use the brakes it will start using the regen, even if you have it switched off.

The regeneration button is to toggle whether you want it to come on once you've taken your foot off the pedal.

The advantages of it being OFF are that you'll get better range. (You can effectively cost for a VERY long distance as the rolling resistance is really minimal, so uses no energy)

When you have it switched on, the car will slow down as soon as you take your foot off the pedal. Yes it regenerates electricity, but no electric system is perfect, so it WILL waste some energy. (Not sure how much)

In sports mode it's designed to feel like it's in third gear, , to give a more sporty response, especially when it comes to braking.


But, the wife likes it on, I prefer it off.
Horse for courses.

 

[Crick]

It seems the brake is not as responsive or instantaneous with a gentle push,

Take a look at this post, TSB: Brake Pedal Travel Perceived as “Too Long” Just Before the Vehicle Comes to a Standstill - July 18, 2023, from @Tooney in case it applies to you. I had my brakes bled for this "brake travel" reason and the problem was solved.

 

[Capt Mike]

A few weeks ago I had a very low speed, minor collision, necessitating a few weeks off the road for body shop repairs. I hit the brakes pretty hard but the Taycan is a very heavy car and no matter what the speed, it takes a bit of stopping. I 'just' hit the car in front of me and the tow bar height on the SUV was perfectly positioned to punch a hole in my lower front bumper.

Since receiving my car from the repairers, I am a little more wary of low speed collisions. Applying the brake pedal is different in the Taycan over my previous ICE vehicles. It seems the brake is not as responsive or instantaneous with a gentle push, and I don't know if that is due to the fact it is electronic, or if the car is so heavy, or both. High speed braking seems more normal, but low speed braking feels different and there have been a couple of other close shaves.

Recently I switched on energy recovery. This is known universally as regenerative braking, but it is called energy recovery in the Taycan (except if you search for it in the online manual in the Porsche app when you need to use 'recuperation' as the search term). There is no reason why I had it switched off to begin with other than I'm new to EV's. Mine is now set to 'Auto' and it has made a profoud difference. Not so much from a battery perspective, but rather a driving experience.

When you lift your foot off the accelerator, energy recovery kicks in and immediately creates a decelaration effect. I'm now finding that reassuring from a driving perspective, especially at lower speeds. Energy recovery is commencing the braking motion before I have a chance to touch the brake, and when I do touch the brake, it seems it has more of an immediate impact. Aside from the reassurance, it does make the driving experience feel safer.

Interested in thoughts and perspectives from the EV pro's and the newbies like me.

My first drive almost resulted in a rear end collision because I was so used to the car slowing when you lifted the accelerator due to compression from the engine. WOW, the Taycan kept going! Emergency stop and off to the right. No collision. A near miss as the FAA says. But now in traffic I use the regen all the time since it simulates he impression a bit. I recommend that heartily.

 

[Svaba]

The advantages of it being OFF are that you'll get better range. (You can effectively cost for a VERY long distance as the rolling resistance is really minimal, so uses no energy)

This part of your quote confused me. If turning it off gets better range, what's the point of having regenerative braking? I always thought the purpose of it was to return some energy (however minimal) back to the battery and hence, improving range (in whatever capacity).

I think what you're saying (and maybe I'm misunderstanding) is that the benefit of "coasting" outweighs the benefit of returning energy back to the battery? If so, has anyone ever been able to quantify the difference?

 

[Tycan keith]

Tesla call it one pedal driving.... you can't (as far as I'm aware) turn OFF the regen braking, only the automatic regen... the one that kicks in when you take your foot off the pedal.
Regenerative braking not only helps give a little extra charge when you DO need to stop, but is pretty much (as far as my limited engineering goes) a very simple thing to do, but sounds awesome.

It also means you save on brake pad wear, and have nice shiny wheels for longer with no dust!

When you use the brake pedal, it starts braking using the regen braking, not the pads. (Again, as far as i am aware) you can watch it when you switch on the power meter!

(I hope I managed to make that sooooo much clearer.. anyone would think english wasn't my first language, and that's English English not this American stuff! )

 

[OzzieT]

@Taycan Keith thanks some very useful insights. I also appreciate the King's English. Enjoying the dialogue with you, its helped centre and optimise some of my thinking and added important colour

 

[Jhenson29]

This part of your quote confused me. If turning it off gets better range, what's the point of having regenerative braking? I always thought the purpose of it was to return some energy (however minimal) back to the battery and hence, improving range (in whatever capacity).

See post below:

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/recuperation-modes.5718/#post-79271

 

[Avantgarde]

Anyone who owns a 2022 or older Taycan should test drive 2023 or newer model and pay attention to the brake feeling. I did not realize how long and problematic my brake pedal travel was until i drove 2023 & 24 Taycan loaners when my car was in for service. Older models run on an inferior Porsche Stability Management software version that results in a way too long & inconsistent brake pedal with a massive deadzone. I got mine fixed after i complained. The Major difference in braking behavior was acknowledged by the service foreman, who originally thought my brakes are fine but did not hide his surprise after back to back drives between my car and newer models.

You don’t get this update unless you specifically complain. It is both a safety and driving pleasure issue in my opinion. (Prior to this fix I also had couple near misses at low speed, because the initial pressure i applied when i faced a sudden braking need was not enough).

I always thought the odd brake feeling had something to do with the blending of regen and brake pads. Not true. Post update my brakes are firm and work with zero hesitation and minimal effort, just like an ICE porsche. I can’t recommend this one enough.

 

[gtm]

Anyone who owns a 2022 or older Taycan should test drive 2023 or newer model and pay attention to the brake feeling. I did not realize how long and problematic my brake pedal travel was until i drove 2023 & 24 Taycan loaners when my car was in for service. Older models run on an inferior Porsche Stability Management software version that results in a way too long & inconsistent brake pedal with a massive deadzone. I got mine fixed after i complained. The Major difference in braking behavior was acknowledged by the service foreman, who originally thought my brakes are fine but did not hide his surprise after back to back drives between my car and newer models.

You don’t get this update unless you specifically complain. It is both a safety and driving pleasure issue in my opinion. (Prior to this fix I also had couple near misses at low speed, because the initial pressure i applied when i faced a sudden braking need was not enough).

I always thought the odd brake feeling had something to do with the blending of regen and brake pads. Not true. Post update my brakes are firm and work with zero hesitation and minimal effort, just like an ICE porsche. I can’t recommend this one enough.

2023 cars are not immune to losing braking coming to a slow stop and suddenly having to depress the brake pedal an extra inch or so to resume braking. It is the transition from regenerative braking to hydraulic. The regen stops (at approx 3 or 4 mph) and the software doesn't blend in the hydraulic system without a fair amount of additional brake pedal travel. Scary when it happens. I complained of this problem to my dealer and the fix, like yours, was to update the software. Car went back to having normal feeling brakes. What is weird is that the braking action was not like this when the car was new and the problem was intermittent. Not sure what would have changed that a software update would fix, but so far it has. Porsche needs to do much better. Blending the two systems seems to be needlessly complicated and not well implemented.

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