at what point do we stop apologizing for Porsche

[FlyingPoint]

this is from another thread - but I didn't want to derail that thread - I want to derail this thread

I understand this line of thinking but also I remember the vitrol with which people attack other car makers for not solving the whole problem?

the statement above is understandable and reasonable but at what point do we start admitting Porsche is behind in this game…

one of things that drew me to porsche was it's attention to detail and design into corners of automotive design that other "ignore" as "unnecessary"

but while I love my Taycan and consider it the best EV sports sedan on the market - albet at a price - so far after two years of ownership it only excels in Porsche's historical areas of excellence - and falls laughably short virtually all other dimensions that these days are required for automotive dominance

• software
  • in car behind the curve
  • app behind the curve
  • cloud based behind the curve
• OTA updates that take weeks to apply at a dealership and are far and few between
• EVSE that's overheat and are now officially down rated due to design problems
• dealerships that are clueless regarding EV issues and deeply mislead customers
• factually my Taycan has personally spent more days in service in two year than all 6 of my Tesla's combined - Porsche quality vs. Tesla quality don't make me laugh
• fast charging network that is unreliable and a joke in North America
• numerous recalls
• complex charging software that takes a CS/EE degree to understand

now all of these issues have been discussed - and no one issue by itself is horrible - but we would all be laughing and pointing at this list of issues if it was happening to another car makers - but apparently because it's happening ot Porsche it's just fine and none of these issues are that bad

at what point do we stop apologizing for Porsche? These are serious issues, and if they don't get it together their build quality and mechanical engineering prowess will prove desperately insufficient over time and they will go down in stature - Porsche needs to start building competencies in some new areas otherwise this old school watch-maker stitch they have going on isn't going to carry the day.

they need to get serious about being the best at something other than stitching, steering feel, and brakes…cause I'm still taking my vehicle to the dealership and dropping it off for 2 weeks to received a software update that has color icons…my son's Tesla recieved two complete updates in the time my Taycan was at the dealership.

I expect better…and I'm having this thread so we can discuss if I'm alone in this.

friendly discussions only please ;-) but I believe these are issues worth wasting time on an internet forum about.

You have your agenda to be sure. Sell your Taycan and move on. Actually, some of us are very happy with being early/quasi early adopters.

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[Vercingetorix]

I really want to post something negative but have learned not to post after drinking. I do know sober or drunk that the 963 will destroy all the competition and Tesla is not even in the game.

 

[Bigal1267]

1st post. Just a honest opinion coming from a current model x plaid owner while waiting for my Taycan =). I do enjoy Teslas software feature, but I cannot stand the gap and misalignments from the build. The touchless Tesla service has been a hit or miss as well. I guess I found out the hard way 2.5 secs 0-60 only takes you so far.

 

[Stoneageman]

I think the OP is focused too much on the software aspect of the car. I am going to agree that pure technology-wise, Tesla is miles and miles ahead of Porsche. They have better self-driving capabilities, true OTA updates, more functions that can be unlocked post purchase, the ability to retrofit better than Taycan, and faster infotainment overall.

That being said, Porsche is miles ahead in terms of driving dynamics, design, and overall PHYSICAL vehicle quality. Tesla's quality has improved over time I am sure but even as I sat in my friend's new 2022 M3, it was just nowhere near Porsche's build quality and it won't be because they are all about volume. If you are going to compare Tesla to Porsche you have to compare everything. Tesla for some reason puts in crappy breaks in a performance vehicle. If you are going to sell a car as fast as that, and you put in breaks as shitty as you get in a standard Camry, that is not responsible IMO.

I will be honest in that I believe Tesla is more worth your money if you only look at the price per pound. However, many of us on this forum didn't buy a Porsche because we are looking at the value proposition. We bought our car because of it way it made us feel and sitting in a Porsche feels a heck of a lot better than sitting in a Tesla.

 

[4thPcar]

I've not done any apologizing b/c I've not had the need. I've had a great experience with my vehicle, and it precipitates envy wherever I go. I understand others have not been so fortunate.

This is my 4th Porsche (hence the username), and I remain loyal to the brand for all the right reasons (also owned all the other German brands). After a 30 year career on the road, I've also driven enough rentals (and exotics) to know what else is out there.

My wife has a Tesla Model 3. I've seen what this appliance can do, and I do mean appliance to describe the experience of being an owner. The car has no soul. Worse, she on her third or fourth recall. A mobile tech was here earlier today doing something.

I've rolled with any minor learning experiences as "value added." I've come to realize we are all on the bleeding edge with this car and I've valued the camaraderie from this forum.

While we did not purchase a "beta" I can see where some people may feel they are getting a car not ready for commercial distribution. But these are the people that probably should have not purchased the car in the first place. On the other hand, if your car is in service more than its been available to drive, I would not blame you for wanting an exit plan. In such a case, you are the one who deserves an apology.

 

[Scott Allen]

Love Porsches. The Taycan Turbo is my 4th.
No apologies needed.
My Taycan has been great.
If you aren't satisfied, sell it.

Porsche doesn't need you.

 

[Ajes]

I agree that I wish Porsche had done better. The software/tech is not where I hoped it would be. However being their 1st pure EV car, some of this is expected for a new platform, software etc. You can't get from A-> B without doing A first.

I hope they take many of the recalls, failures etc. and learn from them and continually improve going forward. That is what will make me decide if I would buy another Porsche EV. If in a few years the OTA/dealer/PCM/Charging experience is just as bad for sure would consider alternatives.

 

[Archimedes]

I’m in love with my Taycan. No problems and I haven’t done any updates yet. It’s a beast and I’d buy another one in a heartbeat. Hoping to convince the wife to get the EV Macan when it comes out.

I agree the PMCC issue is a joke but I had no intention of ever using Porsche’s EVSE.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

I burned out of the "someone's wrong on the internet" mindset long ago, and yet, inevitably/invariably, I find myself biting. I've been lurking here for a year+, wondering which post will be the one that makes me create an account - and today I got my answer (hi, everyone! big fan. mostly.)

Dave, your initial post has been both upvoted and eviscerated by now, summarily or at length. Skipping over points already made, surely you don't consider the frequency of updates a car receives to be a sign of greatness, do you? Software ain't easy, and patching is worse. If someone tells you differently, ask them if their signing key is still on their dev box.

It's hard for manufacturers to compete with pure sw companies, and Tesla's advantage in this space is near-unassailable: they both started as a pure-sw startup, and have the aura (==stock-based compensation) to attract and retain engineers. The fact that Porsche (and the rest of the world) is far behind is not great, but it's not insurmountable either. Doesn't mean they're not into it, and one can point out the objective facts (rate of bricking, bugs etc.) without disparaging their entire project, or making incomplete comparisons.

TBF, Porsche does have this annoying habit of insisting on preserving a near-perfect image in the retail space (note they're not afraid to admit defeat in competitions), which means privately settling on defects to avoid negative press. (Ask me about IMS sometimes - or, better yet, not.) Ultimately, they are doing good by the customer - as you pointed out, the design defect is acknowledged, albeit tacitly. On the sw side, a/the CEO paid with his job for those defects and delays.

I don't think you'll get an overt apology - this is a proud brand, who think of themselves as the best in the world. Either make your peace with that - and accept the furtively-shipped fixes - or, as the others have said, don't and move on. As the person you quoted had said - for most of us this is an indulgence, and not really worth really strong feelings.

 

[Torv]

As a long-time Porsche owner, owning a 1997 993 Carrera S, the minute Porsche announced the Taycan I was hooked--it's that simple.

I also owned a 2015 Tesla Model S 85D which resided in the garage next to my Carrera. I often joked when my Taycan 4S finally arrived, some sort of automotive conjugal visit between the Tesla and the Carrera occurred to create my Taycan.

Honestly, I always felt there would be teething pains as Porsche worked its way through the technology. And while Porsche does fall short of Tesla on numerous fronts, specifically true OTA updates and software (PCM) stability issues, I feel that my Taycan is light years ahead of my Tesla in terms of pure joy. But that said, I have complete confidence that Porsche will endeavor to not only innovate but take care of its legacy Taycan customers with software updates that improve the user experience.

So call me a fanboi if you will, but just like the tagline--"Porsche. Nothing even comes close."

 

[Visceral]

I probably had the worst Taycan experience of any of you, and yet now I know to just drive it, charge it, and repeat. No issues.

If it is philosophically such a challenge to own, I highly recommend that you sell it. There are WAY too few hours in our days to be obsessed about anything philosophical on the internet.

 

[kort]

I agree with many of the points made by the OP. I came to the taycan from being an OG tesla owner, I owned 2 model S and a model 3 and I too have a severe dislike for elon and his con man acts.

the software OTA updates that porsche promised has gone unfulfilled.
having to bring the car in for software updates is a major PIA, loaners are few and far between and the wait for an appointment is outrageous.

I was scheduled for an update with a loaner for early august. the dealership called and stated that they were having issues doing the update and that there were 3 or 4 cars ahead of me waiting to be updated and that my update could take about 10 days to get to my car then 2 0r 3 days to do the update, they rescheduled me for next week with no loaner.

it takes 30 minutes or so for me to get to the service center, an hour or so plus time to do the paper work is a huge waste of my time just for an update that tesla could pull off OTA.

in the 18 months that I owned the taycan it has been to the shop 5 times.

I won't even get into the hardware conflict that almost left me stranded and limited my use of the car for long trips because getting a charge from EA was at best a 50/50 proposition and the insult from porsche that there was no issue.

on a $125k+ car this is just unacceptable.

the taycan ride and creature comforts are far superior to tesla but if the taycan is down 10-20% of the time that edge is of little value.

I too paid for the porsche evse that was not ready for prime time and should have been replaced but that was not offered to me.

porsche's problem is a very poor implementation of their tech, the PCM is glitchy, I get errors all the time and shutting down and waiting for things to reset is an absurd solution. for example I was on a road trip, 1500 miles r/t and had the screens go black, the audio lock up and the nav glitch. all unacceptable issues.

another huge problem porsche and most of the EV manufacturers are facing is a lack of qualified techs. I have an Ipace and getting prompt service is next to impossible, fortunately that car is drivable despite some minor faults.

the bottom line is that many people seem to not have such issues but when you do encounter one, and you will, you to will not be so willing to apologize for the issues with the car.

I am one step away from selling the car and moving on from the taycan which is a shame because if the car worked as advertised it could be a great car.

lastly porsche has a legacy of putting out cars that are bad from the get go, see the boxster

 

[nickmdp]

Granted I'm only a few months in, but I don't even have problems to make excuses for. For being a pretty big IT nerd, I just want my car to drive, and that's what it does without any issues so far. I needed my own EVSE because I wanted to be able to charge two cars from the same 50A outlet, my 2,500 mile road trip went about as well as could be expected, and I still find myself proud to take friends for a quick spin.

None of that takes away from your experience, and I can't say your subjective opinion is wrong. The plus side is that you could likely take a minimal loss (if any) by selling it right now, and go in any number of alternative directions. I won't lie and say that I don't dream of a 500 mile 4 door rally car EV with all sorts of other bells and whistles on the software and hardware side of things, but that doesn't exist right now, and the Taycan is the closest I can get to it, and that's fine by me.

 

[lcarron]

I have to admit that I have quite some issues at first.
Alarm issue with the CT
Home link transmitter out of order
Car turning into neutral at a traffic light
Charger issue
Door not aligned with the fender
Seat squeaking
Many bugs with pcm

Porsche did resolved each of those issues one at the time and it took time ( actually only 2 visit to the dealer. They are better at it now. The new pcm v6 resolve all the bugs I had and car play is flawless. Yes it took 8 months but I’m very happy now.

Don’t forget that this is a brand new technology for Porsche and Tesla has similar issue for years. They are just way better with OTA. Porsche is getting there.

 

[TDinDC]

I think we can disagree without assuming that others have an agenda. Potato potato.

yes, I wish Porsche did some things better, but I have bought 6 Porsches and have learned over the years that buying a thing is very different than being a thing, so no need to apologize for something that I enjoy tremendously even if I wish it were better!

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