Any hope for significant update when MY 2025 introduced?

[Perry]

Why? Porsche does not have to compete with Tesla - it operates a completely different model with a typically completely different customer profile. It is not trying to be a mass producer of EV’s - VW does that for them. They will likely get better but I doubt their strategy is to compete with Tesla.

Why should I expect less from a €250k Porsche than from Tesla, Polestar, Lucid or any of the numerous Chinese brands that are becoming very much an existential threat for the entire European car industry?

It doesn't matter whether one thinks that Porsche directly competes with Tesla or not, Tesla set the bar for what I as a customer expect from a car when it comes to software. Porsche as well as all other brands will need to adapt to this reality, yesterday, or they will all go the way of Nokia.

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[whitex]

Why should I expect less from a €250k Porsche than from Tesla, Polestar, Lucid or any of the numerous Chinese brands that are becoming very much an existential threat for the entire European car industry?

It doesn't matter whether one thinks that Porsche directly competes with Tesla or not, Tesla set the bar for what I as a customer expect from a car when it comes to software. Porsche as well as all other brands will need to adapt to this reality, yesterday, or they will all go the way of Nokia.

You are not wrong. There is some value in brand (why do people buy Apple phones instead of knock offs which look the same but run Android), but Porsche is falling behind. Currently they still hold best handling, but I gotta tell you, the likes of Lucid are biting at their heels on handling while offering twice the power for the same price car (Taycan Turbo S vs. Lucid Saphire). Lucid just has longevity and reliability to catch up on, but Porsche is making it easier by making their EV's less reliable (Taycan heater anyone?). Ok, the esthetics of a Lucid is not my cup of tea either, but that is easiest to change.

PS> Full disclosure, I almost picked up a Lucid Sapphire after spending a year trying to get a Tacan Turbo CT allocation without any results. It was pure chance (and some work me cold calling dealers) that I came across a configurable allocation only weeks before I would have committed to a Lucid Sapphire. I definitely love the Taycan look better, but you know what, a less pretty car in the garage beats a deposit receipt for a better looking car in the email Mailbox. As a side note, I'm not crazy about the Taycan refresh look either, but of course, beauty is always in the eyes of the beholder.

 

[B61]

I was told by a dealer that battery capacity is increasing to 107 and that there would be new, more efficient motors which all in would lead to a range improvement of approx 25%. Seems to chime with the current marketing blurb re the new Macan.

107 compared to current 83.7 is already +27%

 

[W1NGE]

107 compared to current 83.7 is already +27%

Gross vs Net - be careful - gross (useable) will be < 100 (as per Macan)

 

[B61]

I know, i just couldn’t resist since he was ot clear…that’s why i put

 

[EGGY41]

Well he was a salesman .... but then hopefully he was quoting usable

 

[TAYC4S]

Why should I expect less from a €250k Porsche than from Tesla, Polestar, Lucid or any of the numerous Chinese brands that are becoming very much an existential threat for the entire European car industry?

It doesn't matter whether one thinks that Porsche directly competes with Tesla or not, Tesla set the bar for what I as a customer expect from a car when it comes to software. Porsche as well as all other brands will need to adapt to this reality, yesterday, or they will all go the way of Nokia.

I am not saying you should expect less from Porsche but many will and continue to do so. It’s also probably why Porsche will always push against a 911EV variant until the end.

There is also a reason why everything is an option on a Porsche. It’s because they know Porsche buyers will pay but I agree as they introduce more mainstream vehicles and new customers enter the brand, perhaps they will have to change tact. For now though nothing has really changed and it’s still the best drivers EV (in my opinion at least).

 

[jvdsanden]

For now though nothing has really changed and it’s still the best drivers EV (in my opinion at least).

Then it is clear that you have never driven a Tesla. I have been driving mine Porsche Taycan CT4s for 2 years now and to be completely honest and it hurts us to say, but we had more driving pleasure in our Tesla Model S. Maybe we have other expectations.... But this is not allowed to be said on this forum.

 

[W1NGE]

I know, i just couldn’t resist since he was ot clear…that’s why i put

- if same as Macan then 95% of 100 kWh battery available.

 

[W1NGE]

Then it is clear that you have never driven a Tesla. I have been driving mine Porsche Taycan CT4s for 2 years now and to be completely honest and it hurts us to say, but we had more driving pleasure in our Tesla Model S. Maybe we have other expectations.... But this is not allowed to be said on this forum.

Well, you pay yer money and make your choice...

 

[B61]

Btw: those front Lower lights are… awful

 

[Reg]

Say what you want about Tesla, but they successfully set the standard for car software. My 2015 Model S is still receiving essentially the same software updates that a 2024 Model S is, including the possibility to upgrade the CPU for a cost. That is what one should expect from Porsche too.

this "standard" they set includes nerfing the performance of the battery

https://futurism.com/the-byte/court-tesla-guilty-nerfing-battery-performance

as well as features.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/did-holiday-update-nerf-favorite-switching.318433/

Didn't they do something similar with the sensors recently?

anyway, some people may like that new "standard" in their car, and are happy when they get an updated fart app or some childish "Easter egg"

I don't. I just like driving the car.

 

[Vim Schrotnock]

I was told by a dealer that battery capacity is increasing to 107 and that there would be new, more efficient motors which all in would lead to a range improvement of approx 25%. Seems to chime with the current marketing blurb re the new Macan.

I’m not totally dismissing what the dealer says, but my dealer is one of the best in the Midwest and I can’t tell you how many times I have told them something that I’ve read on this forum and they’ve said oh really? I didn’t know about that. Overall, I believe this forum is a much better and more reliable source of information than any dealer.

I also had a great discussion with the Porsche battery technician and he said there won’t be any significant battery changes for several years. He did tell me in advance about the new Macan but the battery chemistry is exactly the same, and they really don’t have any room in the Taycan to add new battery modules.

For more power they simply need to make the launch power available for a longer period of time.

 

[f1eng]

It doesn't matter whether one thinks that Porsche directly competes with Tesla or not, Tesla set the bar for what I as a customer expect from a car when it comes to software. Porsche as well as all other brands will need to adapt to this reality, yesterday, or they will all go the way of Nokia.

I am a bit of a dinosaur and certainly atypical but:-

I split car software into two sections in my mind.
The first is how it controls the steering feel, effectiveness of things like the ride/handling compromise programmed into the suspension, effectiveness of vehicle stability algorithms, active anti-roll bars, torque vectoring and such things. What I think of as the car software.

The second is things like ICE and ergonomics of the cabin functions. OTA updates and bells and whistles.

It is clear that Tesla are better at the second section which nowadays seem to be more important to a huge number of car buyers, or maybe they just aren’t aware of the first.

I have little interest in ICE and so forth, accept ergonomics is completely lost to styling in almost every car for the las 20+ years but the first section is most important to me, so I would disagree with you totally for the car software Tesla are nowhere near Porsche even if they do have a fireplace and fart cushions.

Their ergonomics set new standards of being cheap and rubbish too IMO.

 

[TAYC4S]

Then it is clear that you have never driven a Tesla. I have been driving mine Porsche Taycan CT4s for 2 years now and to be completely honest and it hurts us to say, but we had more driving pleasure in our Tesla Model S. Maybe we have other expectations.... But this is not allowed to be said on this forum.

Umm - that is very presumptuous. We have had 2. An S 100D and Y which we have just got rid of. They were both specific use case “tools” and liked, but nowhere near the quality of our Taycan nor its driving dynamics.

You should not be so presumptuous in your assertions. I actually like what Tesla is doing but would never categorise it in the same space.

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